Glass Beads in the head

[tsunari]

Yeah pretty ugly sight . . . here's the deal:

Oil pressures at idle have started to drop and are now down around 6-7 psi @1k RPMs when fully warm. Motor has no BS, no squirters, JE Pistons, stock oil bypass valve . . .

Pull the timing belt off and sure enough, the oil pump shaft has a TON of axial play in it (it's disgusting) and oil is actually leaking past the shaft & oil seal. So the oil pump is toast . . . I decide to check the cams and some of the journals have started to gaul. The ones at the very end of the oil galley (closest to the cam gears) look the worst.

While in the head, I found glass beads / sand just chilling at the bottom of the head and also on some of the valve retainers. I'm guessing this is due to the assembler not cleaning the head out completely after it was machined.

Getting this work fixed under 'warranty' is not an option -- (another long story) so what should I do now? Pull the motor and completely redo all bearings, rings, etc . . . pull the head, flush it out and check main bearings/rod bearings for damage and hope the head isn't trashed?

What are your guys' thoughts?

 

[weith1111]

Personally I would vomit.



And then I would do a rebuild top to bottom to make sure everything is safe, in spec, and clean. New bearings are cheap compared to having to teardown and rebuild again if you missed something that was messed up from this.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Ouch!!

I agree, the motor in the current condition is trash...start the rebuild from bare block, make sure ALL the galleys are cleaned out. Then NEVER go back to the previous builder.

 

[compression]

yup looks like the machine shop screwed you over , they are supposed to clean out all the glass beads after they blast it. sorry buddy

 

[steve]

Could it have been junk in the rocker cover from when it was stripped?

Steve

 

[tsunari]

Could it have been junk in the rocker cover from when it was stripped?

Steve

Dont think so . . . I've had previous problems like this from the same builder while I was running a stock valve cover . . .

Guess I will be draining the fluids this week and start pulling it.

Anyone happen to know the journal clearances for the cams? Or can I just find em in the FSM . . .

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Dont think so . . . I've had previous problems like this from the same builder while I was running a stock valve cover . . .

Not to be an a$$, but why would you go back to the builder? If under warranty, they should do it again if they screwed up again. I don't know.....

 

[tsunari]

Not to be an a$$, but why would you go back to the builder? If under warranty, they should do it again if they screwed up again. I don't know.....

not at all. . . perfectly legit question . . .here's a few reasons why I'm not going back

-3 motors in just over a year

1st motor -- oil bypass valve stuck open with some kind of grit (perhaps glass beads/sand now that i think about it)
2nd motor -- oil pump died after a few months of use
3rd motor -- oil pump died and found glass beads/sand in the head

so this would make getting motor #4 from them . . . I personally want nothing to do with them beyond this point. I wouldn't mind if they give me the new parts to fix this myself, but they aren't touching it

 

[weith1111]

They are still liable. Get the parts, or the equivalent in $ from them and go elsewhere. Don't give up!

 

[FORMONTOYA]

They are still liable. Get the parts, or the equivalent in $ from them and go elsewhere. Don't give up!

I totally agree. It's not your fault they don't know what their doing. And you did pay them some (I would imagine) hard earned money for a product or service that they can't seem to deliver on. I mean 3 motors in a year....come on.

 

[tsunari]

Well I finally got ahold of the owner and turns out they do not use sand/glass beads for their blast media . . . they actually use walnut shells.

But he said to go ahead - pull the motor and get it back to him so he can figure out what's going wrong

Getting real tired of doing this . . . but cant give up now

 

[Rex2342]

Were each of the failed oil pumps new? I don't think I've ever heard of an oil pump going bad let alone 2 in less than a year. That shop isn't doing something right. I would demand my money back and take it somewhere else or do it yourself from now on.

 

[92awddsm]

Were each of the failed oil pumps new? I don't think I've ever heard of an oil pump going bad let alone 2 in less than a year. That shop isn't doing something right. I would demand my money back and take it somewhere else or do it yourself from now on.

Unfortunately, this is a very reputable dsm shop that the engine came from. Dont pm and ask who because we choose not to give out that information yet. Hopefully, they will once again stand behind their product.

Matt, I am glad to hear that they may do something about these issues. Keep me updated on how things turn out.

Keith

 

[Rex2342]

Unfortunately, this is a very reputable dsm shop that the engine came from. Dont pm and ask who because we choose not to give out that information yet. Hopefully, they will once again stand behind their product.

Matt, I am glad to hear that they may do something about these issues. Keep me updated on how things turn out.

Keith

If this is a reputable DSM shop I would hope they stand by there product and do right by repairing it and compensating matt for his time and frustration. However 3 engines in a years time all with similar failures would prompt me to seek an alternative. A friend of mine had a 6 bolt built by one of the top names in DSM and within 1500 miles it crankwalked. Not only did they pull the engine and fix it for free, they also covered the cost of the flatbed trip to there shop. These results obviously aren't typical and the flatbed ride was short but I feel they did the right thing. This shop just seems to be giving matt a hard time about this. I hope everything works out for you and don't give up.

 

[tsunari]

Unfortunately, this is a very reputable dsm shop that the engine came from. Dont pm and ask who because we choose not to give out that information yet. Hopefully, they will once again stand behind their product.

Matt, I am glad to hear that they may do something about these issues. Keep me updated on how things turn out.

Keith

Keith-

Will definitely let you how things progress . . . I am a bit down about it, but definitely not giving up. The plan right now is to get the motor pulled and shipped back to them . . . once I get it back, I plan on putting it on an engine stand, tearing it completely down, and going back over everything and re-assembling it. I'll most likely be bouncing questions off of you and probably the rest of the forum as I have never built a 4G63 from the ground up yet and am sure there are little tips/tricks one can only gain from experience.

Will keep you all posted

And Rex . . . yeah, they were all brand new Mitsu oil pumps. I'm kind of thinking #2 went b/c whoever assembled that one neglected to pack the gears with grease . . .but because I did not check it before firing it up, I can never be sure. *lesson learned*