2G -5F, car just cranks over - dark smoke, batt good

[Korndogg]

hey all

i'd really appreciate help with this one

'96 talon TSI wouldn't start today. it was between -5 and -10 degrees.

the car just cranks over, and every once in a while it will kick up a bit. i saw the tach get to a bit above 500rpm once, but it was VERY brief. the car doesn't run at all then die.. it just kicks a little bit while trying to crank it.

at first i thought it might be the battery, so i took it to autozone and they charged and tested it and said it was fine. it's an everstart that's rated at 875CCA - 1000CA.

anyway, i ended up jumping my car to another that was running while i cranked it and it acts the same, so i know i'm getting good power.

yesterday i put a full tank of 93 octane in and then drove 75 miles on the interstate. i put some dry gas / gas antifreeze stuff in today when i couldn't start my car.

the car coughs almost black smoke while you crank it - mostly when it "kicks". (no cat on exhaust)

if i crank the car for long enough.. 7-10 seconds maybe.. i can hear a weird.... clunking? ticking? strange noise anyway. it soudns almost like it's coming from under the floor of the rear passenger seat.. like where a pass would put their feet on the rear/pass side of car. i don't know if maybe that's the sound of my fuel pump doing something? maybe my line is frozen up? but then would the car still belch black smoke?

anyway.. i would really appreciate help with this one.

let me know if you need info

thanks a lot guys


edit: i was trying to get the car started for 3 hours today so i could go home... to give you an idea how much time i've spent cranking on it.

edit2:
oh, and i've had this similar problem 2 other times this season.. the coldest days really -below -10. it wouldn't start with my remote starter, so i had to go out and give it 2-3 long cranks before it would start. and it was then too pushing some real dark smoke while cranking and then also for a short while after it started.

 

[x camaro owner]

when was the last tune up.

lots of people who don't due routine maintenance love the i can't figure out why car doesn't start when its super cold.

frozen gas i have only seen that once, it was a car that sat for months. then was tried to start in the winter.

but the power of advertisement and paranoia sell the products (heet)

 

[Korndogg]

heh.. well what were you getting at with the tune up. it wasn't that long ago, and on top of that i do most of the maintenance myself.. so... i dunno what you were getting at. what could cause this?

plugs, wires, oil, antifreeze are all very new...

please let me know what you're getting at..
thanks

 

[xcelr8n]

well, it could be so many things....
rather then have me and others list each option one by one I suggest reading this.
http://www.taboospeedshop.com/MCDS.htm

 

[Korndogg]

well, if anyone else has any ideas specifically related to the cold please let me know, cause my car starts at the flick of a key when it's warm

thanks a lot

 

[Korndogg]

i've been looking around.. and it seems like *maybe* it could be the coolant temp sensor? except i don't have a CEL....

curious.. my car (Even during the summer) always runs much faster after i drive like on the interstate for 45 mins.. and sometimes it randomly will run like that anyway... could that be cause by the temp sensor? o2 sensor? could a bad o2 sensor cause this real cold start problem?

thanks again

 

[I-luv-em-all]

could a bad o2 sensor cause this real cold start problem?

thanks again

no, my O2 sensor is complety dead, and my car still starts in -40 to -50 degrees celcius weather.

 

[Korndogg]

3rd day now, car still won't start
i replaced the coolant temp sensor.. though when i went to buy it at autozone they came up with a small one with a single wire. i was expecting one with 2 wires, but autozone called that the radiator fan switch, so i just installed the one i was given

checked for gas and spark - both are good

someone on another forum mentioned the CAS, which struck a note with me because a while ago a posted about my car randomly seeming to miss a single fire while i'm driving down the road, causing my car to jerk suddenly. so i was disappointed when i found a spark at all 4 coils.

did i replace the right coolant sensor?
could it still be the CAS?

thanks guys

 

[phalanx]

Could it be the oil is too cold? -10F is on the extreme low end of the 10w-30 temperture range.

 

[Korndogg]

Could it be the oil is too cold? -10F is on the extreme low end of the 10w-30 temperture range.

eh.. i dunno... but i was trying it when it was 15-20º today and it was acting the same


i have another question though...
i found out that the temp sensor i bought wasn't the right one, so i'm trying to get the right one.. but anyway, i ended up removing the intake pipe that's connected to the intake manifold to get to the temp sensor.. i noticed a smell of gas (not real strong, but it's there) in the intake.. is this bad?

there was also a smidge of like.. gas i think.. though it was more oily. in the intake manifold.. just enough to leave a mark if you ran your finger through it.
i hope this isn't too unusual?

thanks again

 

[tylerk]

did you pull the plugs at all? are they fouled? just wondering if you may just be flooding it?

 

[Korndogg]

did you pull the plugs at all? are they fouled? just wondering if you may just be flooding it?

i havn't pulled them yet.

i was wondering that myself to be honest, heh. a friend told me that it's not acting like that at all thogh and i'm not sure how it would act....

the other thing is - why would it act like this in the first place thoug? it's not like it would have become flooded in the parking lot for me to go try to start it.. heh

 

[RallyxDave]

You need to make sure you get the coolant temp sensor that goes to your ECU. If you replace the coolant temp sensor that goes to your coolant gauge then you're not gonna help anything. When my coolant temp sensor went bad the car would take forever to start when it was cold. Kinda like when I had a motorcycle with a choke on the carburator and I forgot to pull it when it was cold out.

 

[tylerk]

i havn't pulled them yet.

i was wondering that myself to be honest, heh. a friend told me that it's not acting like that at all thogh and i'm not sure how it would act....

the other thing is - why would it act like this in the first place thoug? it's not like it would have become flooded in the parking lot for me to go try to start it.. heh

Well, the one thing I can think of is if it had a hard time catching due to the cold and you kept cranking it? But yeah, I don't know if I could sit here and say that's it for sure. I would pull one of the plugs and look at it though, especially where you say you're smelling gas.

 

[Musashi450]

This sounds exactly like what my car is doing right now. I pulled my plugs and and they are soaked so chances are yours are to. Yeah its wierd I'm getting both spark and fuel and its cranking strong?! just not starting up.

 

[I-luv-em-all]

Could it be the oil is too cold? -10F is on the extreme low end of the 10w-30 temperture range.

i am running 10w-30 right now in -40 to -50 degrees celcuis, their is no way "the oil is too cold".

 

[olmytsi]

I had a similar problem yesterday. A triple A guy was in my lot helpin another person and he told me to hold the gas down to the floor and crank it and it worked. Do not pump it as it will flood the engine with gas, just leave it floored.

 

[Korndogg]

well i was finnally able to get the right sensor (had to go to dealer)

problem is unresolved....

i have battery, spark, and fuel.. car was running great until i shut it off and left it in -10ºF weather all night

does anyone know where the MPI fuse is on a 2G? i found one labeled "motor"... 20A blue fuse.. i think this might be it...

or any other way to make sure my engine isn't flooded


if anyone has ANY other ideas.. please let me know.. i really miss my baby

 

[tylerk]

Just pull one of your plugs and look at it.

 

[sjgYFZ200]

Just go easy on your starter going through all this

 

[Korndogg]

my starter i still crankin strong...

yeah, i guess i'm gonna pull a plug tomorrow and see what it looks like

and i found the fuse.. it IS the one marked motor..

it does seem to help if i pull the fuse, crank it, put the fuse back and try to start it... it's like it's about to start as soon as i turn the key but then quickly goes back to the normal routine

i'm out of ideas..

any help at all is greatly appreciated before i let someone else work on it..

 

[Musashi450]

Hey I just solved what my problem was so I'm spreading the word of maintenance! What spark plugs are your running and whats your gap. Pull your plugs and check them out! Go change your spark plugs. Just fixed allllllllll my problems......all along the stupid spark plugs..... It can't hurt and its one the cheapest replacement part on your car!

 

[Korndogg]

i've got NGK bpr6es's with only a few thousand miles on them..
i'm checking to see if they're fouled tomorrow... don't expect them to be, but i'll check to be sure


does anyone happen to know where the CAS is on a 2G that has it on the crankshaft rather than the cams? and how to change it? cause that's where mine's at....

thanks again guys

 

[x camaro owner]

no, my O2 sensor is complety dead, and my car still starts in -40 to -50 degrees celcius weather.

i can explain this because the car doesn't read the o2 sensor on a cold start.

 

[Musashi450]

Their is actually a crank angle sensor, and a cam angle sensor. The cam angle sensor determines when the car should spark and the crank angle sensor I think (but I'm not sure) determines when to inject fuel. The crank angle sensor is located behind the harmonic balancer, and under the lower timing belt cover.
-Chris