What's the proper clutch fluid for an ACT 2600?

[dbritt]

The longer I've had my ACT 2600 clutch, the worse my first gear gets. I doubt it's my transmission (but it might be), but I'd like to try the cheap things first. I'm going to bleed the clutch lines and I want to make sure I'm getting the right fluid so that it doesn't compress too much due to the extra force from the 2600 pressure plate. Which fluid do you recommend for this clutch system?

TIA

 

[steve]

I use the same fluid as I use in my brakes, Valvoline Synthetic DOT3 brake fluid.

Steve

 

[TransAmConvert]

If it's been awhile the pedal linkage may be wearing out. Whats the freeplay like?

Taboospeedshop.com has tons of info about dsm clutches, check them out.

 

[dbritt]

What freeplay? :thumbdown

That's the problem is that it's engaging right off the floor. I read that it could be my clutch rod, but I extended that ALL THE WAY (like it'll fall through if I do 1 more turn). I heard to make the rod longer. I also heard to rebleed the clutch lines and that sounds the easiest (after extending the clutch rod) and cheapest (probably). So just trying to find out what the best fluid for my application is.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

there are so many different things that could be causing this, that theres really no way to know whats wrong without pulling the trans of the car.
we has this type of problem on my friends 2g fwd(he was runnign a CM 2500 clutch at the time, i forget if it was the street or race disc, we have had both in the car), adjusted the clutch rod all the way out, replaced the master cylinder, and replaced the slave, trying to avoide spending 2 hours outside to take the tranny out.
in the end, we pulled the tranny. it turned out to be the clutch fork, the end of 1 point of the fork was snapped off about an inch from the end. the other side of the fork was connecting with the plate, so there was pedal pressure, but there wasnt enough pedal travel to get the broken part of the fork to put pressure on the other side of the plate, so it didnt want to go into gear.

this may be completly unreleted to your problem, but my point and advice is not to waste several hundred bucks replacing one part after another trying to avoide pulling the trans out of the car. if you pull it out, 90% of the time the problem is obvious once you can examine the trans and its surrunding parts.

and to answer your original question, the type of fluid you use in your clutch isnt going to affect it at all. you can use any brand of brake fluid, or costal and lucas both make a manual clutch fulid, but its honestly not any different then brake fluid in terms of pedal feel and perfoemance. as long as you have some kind of hydraluic fluid in there, then thats not your problem. the ammount of pressure your clutch plate has can not compress brake/clutch fluid, your clutch line would pop like an overfilled baloon first.

 

[oldman]

What freeplay? :thumbdown

Step on the the pedal and let it come up by it self, grab it with your hand and see if you can pull it up anymore. If so,

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156805

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96981

http://www.taboospeedshop.com/clutch_pedal_assembly.htm

If you continue to run it with the mc rod all the way out, you'll soon blow the slave cylnder.

 

[dbritt]

Well OK, tomorrow it's time to disassemble the clutch pedal assembly

HOPEFULLY it'll be something stupid and simple. I had already read the idea about the clutch assembly, but had decided that I'd do the clutch bleeding first. Since this clutch assembly fix is potentially only going to cost (less than) $5, I'm going to try it first. Then the tranny.

 

[diambo4life]

Have you checked to make sure that indeed the clutch pedal has play? I would hate you taking the assembly only to find out that there's nothing wrong with it. It's a PITA job. Be sure before you yank it out. Another thing you may only need to shimmy the clutch fork fulcrum ball. Cost = 0$ but again, you have to drop the tranny.

 

[Defiant]

Clutch fluid?

 

[dbritt]

Clutch fluid?

Errr, is the face because you think that's the problem or because we used the term incorrectly?

 

[dbritt]

Have you checked to make sure that indeed the clutch pedal has play? I would hate you taking the assembly only to find out that there's nothing wrong with it. It's a PITA job. Be sure before you yank it out. Another thing you may only need to shimmy the clutch fork fulcrum ball. Cost = 0$ but again, you have to drop the tranny.

When you say "free play" you mean the condition where when I depress the pedal, lift up, and if I can pull it up further w/ my hand afterwards is freeplay?

Just checking.

Doesn't matter if the car is running or not, right?

No, I can't pull it up any further after that. There is absolutely NO freeplay.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

if you're letting off the clutch pedal, pull up and it doesn't come up any further, i'd have to say clutch fork pivot ball shimming will be needed. yep, dropping the tranny. total pain but i know all about it. this past year i've probably dropped my tranny about 6 or 7 times trying to solve my clutch disengagement problems. i tried everything. and i mean everything. master cylinder, slave cylinder, longer slave cylinder rod, new flywheel, new clutch, shimming the pivot ball, opting for new clutch fork and pivot ball, new clutch line, welded a nut on the back of the clutch pedal to get more adjustment out of it, and finally....the clutch pedal assembly. shew!!! my culprit finally ended up being the clutch pedal assembly (it wasn't very easy to pull back up to get the extra distance but when pressing it down you could feel it give way so i knew that was it). took it out, welded it, put it back in, still didn't fix it. finally said screw it and went to a salvage yard and bought a new assembly. that's a total pain in the ass!!! (total of 3 times having to mess with it, twice on my car and once on the salvage car i took it out of). i'd rather pull my tranny anyday preferred to pulling a clutch pedal assembly again.

trust me, i know how much it sucks ass having to pull a tranny (and about to have to pull mine again thanks to eclutchmasters....but i won't get into that) but may as well get in there and do it and be done with it. may as well just get a new fork and pivot ball while you're in there and maybe throw a washer in there as well. just throw the tranny back in and bolt it up, slave cylinder, and shifter linkage and check out the adjustment before you go slapping all the parts back on incase you have to pull it back out (incase you have to pull the washer back out or add one). well, i wish ya luck!

scott

 

[dbritt]

The only reason I don't think it's the tranny (but this may not be conclusive) is because I can SOMETIMES put it into first gear, just not always. If I push REALLY REALLY hard on the clutch (like bending the metal in my floor board hard) I can SOMETIMES get it to engage. This makes me think that it just needs to be able to push further on the clutch (hence the new assembly or bleeding the lines or something). Anyone agree? or am I reaching way too far on this one? If I HAVE to get my tranny done, I'm going to send it to shep and let him beef it up big time.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

nah, not saying there's a problem with the tranny at all. okay, when you press in on the clutch, the throwout bearing pushes against the little fingers on the pressure plate. when it does that, it disengages the clutch. but if it can't totally reach it, it won't disengage it. and that's the problem you're running into. you've run outta room on the adjustment rod and the throwout bearing just can't go any further. if you take out the tranny, there's the throwout bearing in the middle. connected to that is the clutch fork. if you take that off there's a ball behind it that the fork pivots on. sometimes you can unscrew the ball and put a washer behind it. this pushes everything closer to the pressure plate. the fork and the pivot ball can get worn out and so you have less room for adjustment. there's no need to take apart the tranny. but have to take it outta the car to change those couple of parts. a longer slave cylinder rod won't fix the problem and keeping the master cylinder adjusted all the way to the end may eventually blow the seals in it.

 

[dbritt]

sweet, thanks! I'll try that tonight. My friend and roommate will be here to give me pointers cause they've taken their trannies out a LOT. That'd be so awesome if all I had to do was add a washer or 2

 

[dbritt]

Oh, how long do you think it'll take to drop the tranny? We have a lift and air tools, but no tranny jack. I've heard 10 hours, but that sounds exaggerated.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

if you've never taken it out yourself before, yeah, 10 hours sounds about right. i've managed to get it down to about 4 or 5 hours though. but i've had enough practice and i have to take off my exhaust manifold too to get to the bolts on the downpipe and i have to take off the whole pipe you don't have to use a tranny jack though. just lower the car as close to the ground as you can and get a regualr car jack under the tranny. have someone doing the jack while the other person moves the tranny around and hold it tight to make sure it doesn't fall off the side of the jack. i've done it myself (dropping it and installing it) from the topside with no jack or help from anyone.....and it's not light.

and just a side note to help ya out. there's a plate on the bottom side of the car that has about 5, 14mm bolts in it. make sure you take that off otherwise when you drop the tranny it'll hit that and you'll be cussing up a storm trying to figure out why the tranny won't come out.

p.s. if you go with trying to put in washers, try putting them in one at a time. it's a pain trying to install the tranny and taking it back out over and over when trying to mess with the adjustment. but if you put in too many washers to start with, you can overextend the fingers on the pressure plate and if they hit the clutch disc......well, it's not good. just take your time though and make sure it's done right. cutting corners on a job like this can kick you a$$ in the longrun.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

The only reason I don't think it's the tranny (but this may not be conclusive) is because I can SOMETIMES put it into first gear, just not always. If I push REALLY REALLY hard on the clutch (like bending the metal in my floor board hard) I can SOMETIMES get it to engage. This makes me think that it just needs to be able to push further on the clutch (hence the new assembly or bleeding the lines or something). Anyone agree? or am I reaching way too far on this one? If I HAVE to get my tranny done, I'm going to send it to shep and let him beef it up big time.

i honestly think you broke an end off your clutch fork. what you just described is exactly what happened with my friends car. when we pushed the clutch as far as possible, mashing it against the floor, we could get into first and 2nd gears(they are double syncroed in this car). it was very rough going into gear, and sometimes grinded when we did this.
your clutch fork has 2 end points where it makes contact with the pressure plate, if you break one the other still makes contact, and sometimes engages the clutch if you push hard enough.
do you mash your clutch in really hard when you shift fast? stomping on the pedal with all the force you can, can easily break a stock clutch fork. its only a half an inch thick, and with10+ years of pushing the pedal in its not uncommon for then to break. if this turns out to be the problem, buy a clutch fork from taboo, it wolnt break.

 

[dbritt]

When I first bought the car, it would pop out of gear if I did not have my hand on it keeping it in gear. If the fork is causing my current problems, would that be the cause of this other problem? (popping out of first, only first)

 

[oldman]

WDid you pull the pedal up with some force when you check for play? Put your head down there and check if the clutch is at the same exect height as the brake pedal, they should be. How did you bleed the clutch? Did you connect a hose to the bleeder screw and submerge the other end in fluid? If not, air will get back in because you can't close it quickly enough. Double check the pedal and bleed it again http://www.plymouthlaser.com/slave2.htm before you open the tranny.

 

[dbritt]

The dealership were the last people to bleed the clutch.

 

[oldman]

The dealership were the last people to bleed the clutch.

I don't trust anyone else with my car including the dealer, I would bleed it again. I went through 1 1/2 bottle, flush it out real good. I couldn't tell you if that would have solved my problem though because I did it the same time I welded the pedal. My clutch is perfect now, engages at about 1/2" off the floor hot or cold. No more problem down shifting to second even under havvy braking. No more grinding in 1st, 2nd or reverse.
Oh, And that's with the mc rod back to around the stock position before the act 2600.

 

[99redgst]

The longer I've had my ACT 2600 clutch, the worse my first gear gets. I doubt it's my transmission (but it might be), but I'd like to try the cheap things first. I'm going to bleed the clutch lines and I want to make sure I'm getting the right fluid so that it doesn't compress too much due to the extra force from the 2600 pressure plate. Which fluid do you recommend for this clutch system?

TIA

Well seeing as how it is impossable to compress any fluid, I would say you'll be fine using brake fluid. Brake fluid=hydrolic fluid, the clutch is a hydrolic system.

 

[dbritt]

Why would a broken clutch fork affect 1st gear more than 2nd, and 2nd more than 3rd, and not 4th or 5th at all?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

actually it shouldn't. if anything ya might just need a shifter cable adjustment as far as that goes.