Valve cover baffle rivets snapped....weld??

tsi1991awd · 01-28-2009, 10:50 AM

I got a valve cover from the JY that is in great shape. I cleaned it up yesterday and noticed that on the lower left corner, the two rivets snapped and one of the thin metal "tabs" that form the arch (assuming they go over the cam tower?) was bent. I bent the tab back into shape, but the baffle hangs a bit.....so I was wondering, can this be spot welded so that the baffle is flush against the underside of the valve cover like it's supposed to be???

Lofty · 01-28-2009, 02:17 PM

It's hard to tell what you're asking, you wanna take a picture?

DougR · 01-28-2009, 02:26 PM

He is asking the same thing that Glenn just finished up on his VC..
The VC baffle is loose and hanging off, Dur to snapped rivits.. Glenn was sucsessfull at welding his. Im shure with enough care, You can weld yours back on as well.. Just beshure to clean that VC Extremly well.

tsi1991awd · 01-28-2009, 06:21 PM

OK, sorry for not being specific.

When you look at the underside of the valve cover (the part that you don't see when its installed) there's a baffle that runs along most of the underside.

There are also arches that are formed by thin metal tabs. In the lower left hand corner (when viewing the underside) one of the tabs was bent, so I put it back into shape (straight) and there are two rivets to the left of that tab. Those two rivets are snapped. So are the two that are on the opposite side of that tab (its between the two arches)

So a total of 4 rivets are snapped in the lower left corner.

I am wondering if maybe two or three spot welds on the left hand side will be enough to keep it from hanging. Because I'm sure if I installed it like this, the cam lobes will hit it. I'm assuming this already happened since the tab was bent.

I cleaned the valve cover very well with sinple green. The underside had oil that looked burnt on but now the entire VC is spotless. Took an hour of scrubbing with a brush and rinsing, then repeating. Simple green is some amazing stuff.

So yea, two or three spot welds? Or what?

steve · 01-28-2009, 06:29 PM

Yes you can have it TIG welded.

cumpersgsx · 01-28-2009, 07:15 PM

I currently have a VC that is doing this too. Why cant you just drill the rest of the rivets out? Are there any ill affects to doing that?

steve · 01-28-2009, 07:25 PM

The baffles serve an important roll in separating the oil vapor from the air so you want to keep them not drill out all the rest of the retaining rivets and remove them.

tsi1991awd · 01-28-2009, 09:45 PM

Yea the baffles help lubricate the camshafts and the rest of the valve train as well as separate the oil vapors, as Steve said. But here are the pictures that were requested, now that I am home.

The area would be in the lower right hand corner if looking at it from the top.

It is in the lower left hand corner if you are looking at the underside.

It doesn't "sag" that much, but it is very noticable if I hold the VC up in the air.

Here's how it is when it's laying flat.

Hey Steve, would it need to be welded around that whole edge, or can it be spot welded in the corners and be good?

P.S. - did I get it clean enough?

UGOT8UP · 01-28-2009, 09:53 PM

Pretty....Just a few spot's should be good enough. If you can TIG it.

steve · 01-28-2009, 09:58 PM

I would think the welder would pop those broken rivets out of the baffle and tack a weld in their place. You don't want those working loose and dropping into the engine.

this_tsi_8urV8 · 01-28-2009, 09:58 PM

How did you clean it?

tsi1991awd · 01-28-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve

I would think the welder would pop those broken rivets out of the baffle and tack a weld in their place. You don't want those working loose and dropping into the engine.

Yea I will take it to a shop tomorrow. Hope they don't charge much....they shouldn't charge at all!

but the rivets to the right of that arch are also snapped, so they'll have to take care of those as well. But we might be able to get away with just welding those two spots on the end I'm not sure.

Also, this_tsi_8urV8, I used a lot of elbow grease! Lol! The top of the cover had a lot of oil on it and the bottom was completely black and brown, stained or burned with oil. I used simple green in the spray bottle (the foaming kind) and scrubbed the hell out of it with a tire brush...the kind that has soft gray bristles and hard blue bristles on the end. Then I rinsed it with warm water in the bathtub. Then repeat....did that for a little over an hour and the damn thing looks brand new!

tsi1991awd · 01-29-2009, 01:39 PM

Took it to a shop that tig welds and the guy said since the VC is aluminum and the baffle is steel he doesn't think he can weld it and that he will probably have to find a way to rivet it back. But he said he will see what he can do....so hopefully tomorrow I get the VC back. We will see.

tsi1991awd · 01-30-2009, 11:30 PM

Does anyone know how thick the cover is, where the rivets go?

The guy won't be able to get around to fixing my VC until Monday and if he can't do anything I was thinking of drilling a small hole where the rivet would go and then using a sheet metal screw to secure it. I don't know how deep I can drill before exiting through the front side though.

steve · 01-31-2009, 02:25 AM

The problem is you don't want anything inside that can come loose and fall into your engine. That includes JB Weld and sheet metal screws.

I'm sure your welder figure it out, guys have had this done before. He doesn't need to actually weld the baffle to the cover, just weld a blob to the cover through the holes in the baffle to hold it.

tsi1991awd · 01-31-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve

The problem is you don't want anything inside that can come loose and fall into your engine. That includes JB Weld and sheet metal screws.

I'm sure your welder figure it out, guys have had this done before. He doesn't need to actually weld the baffle to the cover, just weld a blob to the cover through the holes in the baffle to hold it.

I see...good point about the screws. I hope he can get it done Monday. I'm waiting for my helicoil kit to come (have two stripped VC bolt holes) and my 3g lifters. Then after that, flap everything on and make it pretty. Because the VC that I have on now has major cracks around the spark plug holes and oil splashes up in that "valley" every day. I'm getting tired of cleaning it!

But hopefully he figures he can just put a big weld there and secure it. The shop I took it to (PMI truck bodies) was building two dragster frames when I dropped it off. Very awesome shop!

turboglenn · 01-31-2009, 10:00 AM

If the welder was smart he'd realize that aluminm melts at a way lower temp than steel, there for, all he has to do is put some little tacks on the place where the rivets go, it won't stick to the steel. Also have him "peen" the weld as it's cooling to reduce the chances of cracking later.

I have a VC that i took the baffle out of and now am in the process of welding it back in, but i've been too lazy to finish it. But i can assure you that using the correct amperage and properly pre-heating the part will yield a nice finished result.

One problem i'm having is that i'm re-doing the whole thing ( i ground all the rivets off) and the heat from the welding is warping the steel as i go along, and that's what i got lazy about battling and why i haven't finished it. With your 2-3 rivets it shouldn't be a problem though.

There was a thread on here a while back where a guy lost a bunch of those rivets down in his engine and it fu(kered things up in his motor, that's another reason i've almost thought about not putting the baffles back in, and also part of why i took the factory rivets off in the first place ( The main reason was to clean where you couldn't get to on the backside of the baffle)

tsi1991awd · 01-31-2009, 03:10 PM

I'm hoping he will just do it. There are a total of 4 rivets that snapped and I took a screwdriver and hammer and popped them out of the baffle part. His job would be damn easy, he wouldn't even have to do all 4 parts. All I need is the end 2 so it won't sag.

turboglenn · 01-31-2009, 03:25 PM

Well, when welding cast aluminum there's the issue of pre-heating the part and the effect that would have on the paint on the valve cover. But, other than that he should be able to do it. The main reason you would have trouble on the inside of the VC is that it's cast (meaning it's porous) and has been exposed to numerous heat cycles and oil it's whole life. This has worked a TON of imputiries into the cast material and can make getting a decent weld very hard if you don't properly clean and pre-heat it. USe an oxy torch to heat it and boil out the oils then wipe it down with a rag and some acetone, THEN wire brush it. YOu don't want to brush it before wiping it off as the bristles will just help work impurities back into the material.

Repeat this a few times then weld while the part is still hot. YOu want to have the surface at least 350* F to get a decent weld, but if you were carefull i imagine you could get that area where the rivet face is hot enough fast enough that you could save the paint on the outside of the VC and still get a good enough bond to make it hold under normal use and stresses.

What i would be worried about is more rivets coming off in the future and making there way into the engine (this was a big fear of mine after welding the AN fittings to it and the other part of why i removed the baffle in the first place. I'm holding off on mine until i see what happens with a friends colt that he's putting together and not using the baffles in his VC (squeak10186 from here on tuners), if he doens't hurt anything on his motor without them i'm going to grind off the few i've welded back on and just run it that way..the last thing i want to constantly worry about is those rivets and if they're still where they should be when i'm out driving.

Hell, if he can't or won't weld it, I will do it for free if you want to pay to ship it both ways..... You would assume responsibility for the risk of using back on the engine again ( just as i'm sure the other weldor will tell you also)

tsi1991awd · 01-31-2009, 05:22 PM

Damn well hopefully he doesn't half ass it. If he doesn't do it I might just take the baffle out. I'm sure it won't hurt a whole lot. I'm planning on running a catch can off of the PCV and the crankcase breather...if any oil comes out its going to be contained. Not sure if its smart to run without the baffle though.

Hell, if he welds it and everything looks alright, and later it snaps then ill be in trouble as well because it looks like when the rivets snapped in the original car, the camshaft hit it. Because as I mentioned, the tab near the snapped rivets on the end was bent on itself....found that strange.

Well the shop called me this morning saying my VC was ready to be picked up. $40 freakin dollars plus tax so I'm going to wait until Friday to pick it up. Don't need it right away anyways (still waiting for my lifters)....hopefully he did a good job on it. Will update you guys when I get it back. Hopefully the welds don't come off....better not for that kind of price! I paid $3.50 at the JY for the valve cover by itself!

tsi1991awd · 02-06-2009, 10:45 AM

Well I just picked up the valve cover and I am truly disappointed. This is something I could have done myself. I asked if Brad was there and they said he was busy. I told them I wanted to speak with him to see why he didn't weld it and they said he could call me later. Never again will I go to this shop.

Here is what he did to my valve cover.

At least he used thread lock (I tried unscrewing it and it's in there good)

Morpherex · 02-06-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsi1991awd

Well I just picked up the valve cover and I am truly disappointed. This is something I could have done myself. I asked if Brad was there and they said he was busy. I told them I wanted to speak with him to see why he didn't weld it and they said he could call me later. Never again will I go to this shop.

Here is what he did to my valve cover.

At least he used thread lock (I tried unscrewing it and it's in there good)

I think it should have been bolted on from factory anyway. Not riveted then hammered.

tsi1991awd · 02-06-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpherex

I think it should have been bolted on from factory anyway. Not riveted then hammered.

The potential for the screws to fall into the engine is there though. But I guess its the same with the rivets because I got them out pretty easy since they were snapped off.

I'm just pissed off that he went this route and charged me $40 for it.