Is a DSM the car for me? Or is it NOT?

[RickyBobbyyy]

I sold my 2005 Dodge SRT-4 in feb to set myself up for something I REALLY wanted. I bought a 1998 Honda Accord LX to save money, pay off some bills and end up with a new car by the summer (I was shooting for an EVO). Things did not go according to plan and I got sick of having a boring daily driver so here I am in search for a new car.

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I have driven almost every car on the planet, anything from Mazda 626's to a 2007 BMW M5 6 Speed and a 2001 Porsche Carrera 4 Turbo... I know what I like and what I need out of a car, I just can't seem to find a car that fits the mold. I need a car that is the following...

-Reliable (this will be my lightly modified daily driver)

-Attractive (I can't stand for driving an ugly car... save your NEON jokes )

-12-14 Second car, with bolt ons... (any slower and I would die from slowness)

-Handles well (I can deal with pretty good handling, but crap I cannot)

-DURABLE! (I take on ramps hard, off ramps hard, corners aggressively and like to shift... I don't drive like that all the time, it gets old but I need something that I don't have to drive on egg shells with)

I really like the 2G TSI, GS-T and GSX... they can be had for not a lot of money and I hear they can make gobs of power with very few doll-hairs. I am hearing all the time that if you was reliable, stay away from DSM but what makes the 2G Turbo DSM so unreliable BESIDES the crank walk dilemma? Anything specific? Expensive to replace or repair? I heard that the most common walked DSM are 1995-97... and that only 10% of 1999 Turbo DSM where affected by Crank Walk, and that if it has not happened by a certain mileage... it most likely wont. BUT if it where to, how do you take care of that? And what will it cost?

-What makes a DSM unreliable if crank walk never exsisted?

-If my car walked, would it be cheap to fix? cheap to replace it with another 4G63? Or would I just be asking for another issue?

-If I got a GSX or TSi, would I be able to swap a 4G63 out of an EVO? They are both AWD and you never hear of 4G63 out of an EVO walking... or would this be impossible to find, or really expensive? Pointless?

-What HP level can I reach without having to deal with problems?

-If I where to get a GS-T and modify it to a reliable HP level... how big of a traction issue would I run into? I really don't want to invest in an LSD... NOT CHEAP! My SRT-4 had a Quaife LSD stock and I still ran into problems at 255whp...

-Are the GSX/TSI drivetrains strong? Clutches strong? or are they like EVOs (gear grinds, transfer case issues, clutches that don't last...)

Is this the car for me? Or should I look elsewhere?

 

[oldman420]

asking dsm guys if a dsm is right for you is like asking the pope if you should be catholic. Being seriouse though if you don't like fixing things and getting a little greasy sometimes a talon/eclipse is not for you. They do make big power with very little being put into them, but they demand upkeep. Also they are natorious for tranny problems, espescially the 1g talon/eclipse.

 

[92AndAHalf]

I really like the 2G TSI, GS-T and GSX... they can be had for not a lot of money and I hear they can make gobs of power with very few doll-hairs. I am hearing all the time that if you was reliable, stay away from DSM but what makes the 2G Turbo DSM so unreliable BESIDES the crank walk dilemma? Anything specific? Expensive to replace or repair? I heard that the most common walked DSM are 1995-97... and that only 10% of 1999 Turbo DSM where affected by Crank Walk, and that if it has not happened by a certain mileage... it most likely wont. BUT if it where to, how do you take care of that? And what will it cost?

The 99's had revised split thrust bearings, so they're not as prone to crank walk. As for a fix for CW, you can swap in a 1G 6-bolt motor.

-What makes a DSM unreliable if crank walk never exsisted?

To be honest, mine has been pretty good, but you have to remember that these are old cars now, so it's basically repairing all the worn components which can be a pain.

-If my car walked, would it be cheap to fix? cheap to replace it with another 4G63? Or would I just be asking for another issue?

You can replace a 2G motor with a 1G 6-bolt. Any DSM shop should be able to do this for you. Engines can be had for around $1,000 or so from what I've seen in the past.

-If I got a GSX or TSi, would I be able to swap a 4G63 out of an EVO? They are both AWD and you never hear of 4G63 out of an EVO walking... or would this be impossible to find, or really expensive? Pointless?

No, all the evo's past the EVO 3 had a reverse engine setup from the Talons and different components. Not sure if you can swap in the EVO 3 motor, but I wouldn't bother. 1G 6-bolts are fine to swap in.

-What HP level can I reach without having to deal with problems?

Modified or not, you can always run into problems. For a fairly reliable daily driver, running into 13's should be fine. Everyone probably has a differen outlook on this. So maybe around 250-300hp for a nice daily driver?

-If I where to get a GS-T and modify it to a reliable HP level... how big of a traction issue would I run into? I really don't want to invest in an LSD... NOT CHEAP! My SRT-4 had a Quaife LSD stock and I still ran into problems at 255whp...

It'll probably be around the same. I had a 1G FWD with around 230HP, and it had the usual traction issues. I never put really good tires on it though.

-Are the GSX/TSI drivetrains strong? Clutches strong? or are they like EVOs (gear grinds, transfer case issues, clutches that don't last...)

I've never had a problem with the drivetrain. Most people consider the weak link in DSM's to be their trannies. I've seen a lot of people have problems with the t-cases, but in my experiences as long as you do the recall, you're good to go.

Is this the car for me? Or should I look elsewhere?

Honestly my Talon has been good to me, but I wouldn't say they are plagued with problems. They're old cars, but if you keep on top of regular maintenance (replacing wear and tear items, etc) they can be pretty nice daily driver's in my opinion.

I commute around 50miles everyday to work with my 1G Talon, and it's never left me on the side of the road. Of course, being an old car I've run into a lot of parts replacement, but what do you expect right?

They're just like any car. Just be prepared to replace worn out old parts, and deal with rusty seized bolts. Look for something clean that hasn't been beaten by a kid (can be difficult). People tend to drive the hell out of them Good luck, whatever you choose!

 

[talon187]

it all dpends on what you buy and what you do to it as for as clutch tranny issues and transfer cases well.. if you plan on making around 300 or more whp dont expect a stock clutch to hold up for very long. the transmissions are our biggest problems i would say if you want 12-11s for daily driver i would get one built..my buddy runs 11s on his daily driver vr4 and hasnt had many issues he builds his own transmssions and he had a rebuilt motor. the other issue with our cars are balance shafts they can sieze up and cause problmes.

 

[winterftbl]

As long as you do basic maintenance your dsm will last a long time, and crankwalk is overated. I would say test drive one and see if you like it, if you do then your car dilemma is solved, if not then move on. I love my talon.

 

[ricktb]

I believe a car is reliable if you treat it with respect and stay on top of maintenance.. I can tell those that abuse and neglect their dsm's end up parting it out on dsmtrader.com. I own a 2g talon and must say this is the best used car I've ever owned, and love the fact that there is so much technical support available via this and other dsm forum sites. Performance parts are also plentiful. I also think a modified and tuned dsm can compete with some of the upper end vehicles such as viper, bmw, porche, mustang, etc. for not nearly as much money so maybe give one a test drive and decide for yourself.

note: some dsm's get rust on the front strut towers and could be expensive to fix so make sure it is clean, and take steps to rust proof the underside from trapped water and moisture.

 

[Defiant]

I'm afraid that at this late point in their history, and that parts are starting the dry-up, I'd never recommend a DSM to a new owner who intends to drive it normally, let alone someone who wants it for its performance potential.

 

[mach4g63t]

I think the only reason people cry about the trannies is because us AWD guys have a 'launch bug'. I mean, my uncle had a 96 TSi and we used to smoke the tires daily. Never had problems with the tranny. But he and I both had trouble with our 2g AWD's because we like to take drives together and launch from every intersection. Even then, he gimped his 2g around for like 2 months on the rear wheels because his front differential was jacked up and the fronts weren't getting power. It's all a respect issue, as with any car. Respect it with maintenance and a bit of kindness and the vehicle will make you happy with less repairs and maintenance. But I'm just a jack off driver , I love to launch. I just don't cry when my stock tranny goes south a year later.

 

[Bcoy]

DSM's are a hassle..but in my opinion, they are deffinatly worth it in the long run

 

[a_flint87]

I've got a 97 spyder gst with 84k on the clock and no sign of crankwalk, knock on wood. I agree with the previous statements, crankwalk is over-rated. If you have high standards of upkeep there is no telling how long a dsm can run. Just dont dump a bunch of money into mods without taking care of the basic automotive needs, aka fluid changes, plugs, wires etc.

 

[ROOKIE1]

(yoda voice)Unreliable a DSM is not . Adding new parts to old parts is . . Any time you add horsepower bolt on parts you increase the chance of breaking the old it looks fine parts . And the Neon , but your old one I like . It is all about the way the car makes you feel .

 

[Street_Killer]

I know what you need. A already turboed miata.

 

[ROOKIE1]

I know what you need. A already turboed miata.

May as well get the V8 miata .

 

[97redEclipse001]

I just like the fact that I'm seeing fellow Mainers pop up more often. I can't wait to start hitting up HIN Boston after college.

 

[96gstdsm]

Yeah monster miata's(v8) are one hell of a fun car to drive around.

 

[ROOKIE1]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hsh4cEhEWlg .

 

[Black_Bullet]

I'm afraid that at this late point in their history, and that parts are starting the dry-up, I'd never recommend a DSM to a new owner who intends to drive it normally, let alone someone who wants it for its performance potential.

Really? Ive never had trouble finding parts between local car stores, online venders, performance shops and junkyards...
I do agree that a dsm isnt for everyone, its more for the do it yourselfer not scared of breaking parts type owner... Which usually means it wouldnt be a daily driver when its highly modified to the point breaking parts become normal. Dsms arent hard to work on given the engine configuration and size, but certain things can become an annoyance for those lacking knowledge and experience of the car...

On the positive side of Dsms...
Its the best performance bang for the buck car you can buy.
You should be able to get a clean good condition 2g awd/ or fwd for under 6k now days; pick your poisen; ( but why buy fwd when theres a awd model... On my old gst i experienced severe wheel spin and torque steer in 1st and 2nd gear with anything over 250lbs/ft of torque... My awd laughs at my 300+ power output and lays it down effortlessly everytime) Anyways a rough estimate in my mind would be dropping another 6k max between built motor/tranny and maintenance and some effective bolt on upgrades and id say youd easly have a 12 second car... Or even the stock motor is proven to take you deep into the 11s if you unlocked its power.... The 4g63is the most potent mod hungary 4 cylinder made imo... It takes well to increased cylinder pressures unlike most cars...
If you know what your doing and take the right steps the first time... Besides for those who are infatuated with awd/turbo cars this is the cheapest one available with the highest potiential for drag racing out of them all.

 

[vaboys2ndgen]

If you plan on keeping the DD accord around then i would say yes get a DSM, every dsm owner can vouch well most ha will vouch for having a DD for the unknown craziness that may happen to your Dsm.

if you want something fun as much as i love my 2G, pick up a 1G but either or good luck with your decision

 

[Black_Bullet]

Hey ________ , nevermind . http://youtube.com/watch?v=hsh4cEhEWlg . Thanks for your contribution to this thread .

Guess thats even better than the Ls1 Rx7s .
Pretty impressive.

 

[Street_Killer]

Have you guys never heard of a turboed miata? Or are you just flaming a car you know nothing about. Ive had a miata and the thing handled better stock then a dsm could with 10k into the suspension. He said he wanted a reliable car that handled well.

 

[theprojectDSM]

I also think a modified and tuned dsm can compete with some of the upper end vehicles such as viper, bmw, porche, mustang, etc.

ive seen a 92' eclipse awd woop a vipers ass...(excuse my french). it was great seein it...both upgraded(dont know how much though)

 

[ryedog878]

I would have to say you only need one ride in a worked 1 st or a 2 nd gen to completly fall in love with a dsm, I did. I cruised one night with few friends 2 years ago and rode in a 93 talon fully worked and felt a awd launch at 4500 rpms and from that sec i was completly hooked on a dsm. I sold a 2005 f-150 and a 2006 gsx-r 1000 and started the long search for a good clean first gen. I flew 1028 miles to get mine. And after many, many long hours in the garage replacing normal wear and adding all my bolt ons. I would not sell my car for all the tea in china. The feeling you get from spanking a brand new z06 vett is priceless: tease:, not mention the facial expression on the owner's face. Bang for buck you will never find a better car.

 

[Talonracn50]

Mazdaspeed builds one now -- factory turbo miata -- with a warranty!

 

[chrish1440]

A 2G GSX with a biult piston/rod motor and a evo3 16G would be a great car to own. You would enjoy it and it would be fairly reliable.