Clunk Noise from left front wheel- any guesses?

[wheeljack]

i have a 97 gs that i'm bringing back from the dead. When you go from stopped to accelarting or shift up at low speeds, a clunking noise can be heard and felt near my left foot. the wheel seems to shudder on horizontal movement, not up and down or over bumps really. It is especially bad on sharp lefts.
With the car jacked up, i can simulate the noise by shaking the wheel back and forth. But thier is no visiable problems with the tie rod arms or cv, as the noise seems to come from deeper underneath the car.
any guesses out there? Some kind of worn bushing or mount?

thanks, this site has been a huge help so far!

 

[Mikelb]

To me, this sounds like worn wheel bearings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_bearing

Read that article and try the procedure it lists, if the wheel "rocks" then you have found your problem.

Another possibility is that a CV joint has gone out, this usually results in a "clacking" noise when you turn the wheel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CV_joint
That article describes how to tell if it's actually the CV joint.

Let me know what you find, if this isn't it, I'll do a little more searching for possible suspension problems.

 

[talontsi3]

I'd say wheel bearing as well, I just replaced mine last week, Same thing with the car lifted, It moved back and forth and made the same clunk noise. Good luck

 

[dsm-onster]

Jack the car up. Turn the wheel all the way to the right (as turning to the right). Shake the wheel and look at the ball joint on the lower control arm. I don't know about the upper, because it's been a while since I've looked under the wheel well of a 2G. If that is sloppy, then you've found your problem. My 1g control arm went out and did exactly this.

The only reason why I donot think it is the cv joint is because usually cv simptoms reveal themselves during hard turns accompanied by "clicking" long before they completely go out where you possibly hear grinding.

 

[Mikelb]

Jack the car up. Turn the wheel all the way to the right (as turning to the right). Shake the wheel and look at the ball joint on the lower control arm. I don't know about the upper, because it's been a while since I've looked under the wheel well of a 2G. If that is sloppy, then you've found your problem. My 1g control arm went out and did exactly this.

The only reason why I donot think it is the cv joint is because usually cv simptoms reveal themselves during hard turns accompanied by "clicking" long before they completely go out where you possibly hear grinding.

I didn't really think it was the CV joints, I just wanted to cover all the bases and give a list of things to look for, I hate going to diagnose a problem on my car and not knowing what to look for, posting on the forums and having to wait hours for responses...

I really didn't think about the ball joint though. That's also a possibility, I guess. Although he already said he could shake the wheels and make the sound, and didn't see anything wrong.

 

[wheeljack]

thanks for the quick pointers! i cant wait to get home from work and shake it around some more- haha. ill letcha know what i find...

 

[dsm-onster]

I didn't really think it was the CV joints, I just wanted to cover all the bases and give a list of things to look for, I hate going to diagnose a problem on my car and not knowing what to look for, posting on the forums and having to wait hours for responses...

The CV joint should definetely be mentioned... We're on the internet not at his car . I was just pointing out likelyhoods .

I really should rephrase: The balljoint in the control arm seems more likely based on my experience, considering the description of the noise and symptoms. BUT the CV joint can not be counted out. And is probably a close second at the very least.

 

[wheeljack]

ok quick update. i got to take the wheel off before a rain storm hit and took a quick look. The hub seems ok. I've had broken hub bearings before and one this isn't. The cv boots arent cracked.
The first problem i see is a trail of fluid coming out from a rubber seal at the very top of the shaft where the axle goes into the...i dunno what its called. differential?
Haynes ch. 7 has a rubber seal here that can be replaced. Thier was enough leaking so that it left a spot on the driveway in the last 24hrs. It's really bleeding!

Also, shaking or rotating the wheel produces a lot of grinding and chatter up near that top part of the shaft. I dont know if that is normal, since i didnt have time to compare to the non broken side yet.

thanks for the help, this is my first adventure into drivetrain stuff. I can do brakes/suspension in my sleep, but hopefully this isnt too hard.

 

[Mikelb]

The cv boots arent cracked.

They don't always have to crack for the cv joints to go out. The inner/outer joints can still wear.

The first problem i see is a trail of fluid coming out from a rubber seal at the very top of the shaft where the axle goes into the...i dunno what its called. differential?
Haynes ch. 7 has a rubber seal here that can be replaced. Thier was enough leaking so that it left a spot on the driveway in the last 24hrs. It's really bleeding!

Ah yes, I am pretty sure I know what you're talking about.
The seal in this pic (nevermind the circled bolt)

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You should really replace that seal if it is the one leaking. It is going to leak all of the transmission fluid out of the differential, and fry your transmission. You'll have to drain the trans, and remove the CV joint from the trans to replace this seal. This will give you a chance to examine the transmission fluid for any metal shavings (NOT GOOD).


On another note, I see that you're new to the site. Welcome aboard, but I ask that you fill out your profile. This will help us diagnose your problems, because we'll be able to see your make/model/mod list. Right now, we're kind of shooting in the dark.

 

[wheeljack]

Yep thats it. Is the dealer the only one that has a new seal?
Then I think I'll order the new cv shaft assembly from Napa for $110. The How-to in the diy forum doesnt look too dificult to replace it

 

[dsm-onster]

Also, shaking or rotating the wheel produces a lot of grinding and chatter up near that top part of the shaft. I dont know if that is normal, since i didnt have time to compare to the non broken side yet.

I really wouldn't drive this car until I cheached the differential. The differential is wide open to the rest of the guts in the transmission. So IF something were to "finish breaking" and fly into the tranny, BOOM! MAny guys don't like using LSD inserts becasue they break in the diffwerential and parts fly into the tranny guts taking out the entire assembly. I know that it's just precautionary, but what is your tranny worth to you?

To inspect/replace the differential, follow the instruction on installing a lsd insert as it gets you to the differential anyway:

BMT LSD Insert

This VFAQ article mentions 1G FWD but the the VFAQ reference mentions that it will apply to 1G/2G FWD. . .

Also:

Dre's 99GSX Master Tranny Rebuild VFAQ

The VFAQ drivetrain section

This should be enough for you to get her out. It's not that hard. . . At least for my 1G FWD. I installed a LSD insert a while back .

 

[Mikelb]

I really wouldn't drive this car until I cheached the differential. The differential is wide open to the rest of the guts in the transmission. So IF something were to "finish breaking" and fly into the tranny, BOOM! MAny guys don't like using LSD inserts becasue they break in the diffwerential and parts fly into the tranny guts taking out the entire assembly. I know that it's just precautionary, but what is your tranny worth to you?

I agree with dsm-onster. I just figured that if you had to drain the oil anyway, and something were wrong, you'd see shavings in the oil and post about it, then we'd give you this advice. Though Wheeljack's transmission is going to be different, he just updated his profile that he has a '97 Eclipse NT, those seem to be for the turbo trans.
Edit: oh, and it doesn't look like he'll be driving it, he said in post #1 he's bringing it back from dead, and his profile now states "head gasket" under the parts wishlist.

Yep thats it. Is the dealer the only one that has a new seal?
Then I think I'll order the new cv shaft assembly from Napa for $110. The How-to in the diy forum doesnt look too dificult to replace it

No, Napa will carry this part as well. I think this is the part, but you might want to grab yours and take it in to verify (you're gonna pull the axles before you go, right? I mean, no core charge that way).

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...ption=M/Trans+Output+Shaft+Seal+&+Bushing+Kit

 

[wheeljack]

Yeah, that looks like the seal. I dont know how you found it, i looked all over their catalog!

 

[Mikelb]

Yeah, that looks like the seal. I dont know how you found it, i looked all over their catalog!

Because I'm good like that

No, it's not hard. Go to the catalog, in the left hand of their site, they allow you to select the car model. Then it brings you to the main catalogue page, with all the categories. Go to drivetrain, then seals (IIRC), and it'll ask model-specific questions, when you're done answering them, it'll show transmission gaskets (oil pan gaskets, input shaft seal, output shaft seal, etc...)

I looked at Advance first, but they didn't have a clear pic, and I figured you'd already be at NAPA for the axles anyway.

GL man, and pay close attention to that trans fluid.

1 last thing. I suggest removing the axles from the wheel hubs(both of them), and while they are still in the trans, turn one side(at a time) and listen for noise out of the differential (oh and make sure car is in neutral). Don't turn them fast, just enough to check for resistance/binding and that grinding, you want to make sure that isn't the diff, like previously stated. (Just trying to save the hassle of dropping the trans and cracking the case open, it's time consuming and a PITA)

 

[wheeljack]

Wow, I'm really at a standstill trying to get this hub nut to budge. I 've got the right socket, a 18in breaker, the crowbar through the studs just like in Haynes...and nothin. I got a jaw puller too but i dont think that will help with the nut.

 

[wheeljack]

Nevermind, its off! I just stood on the breaker bar, then fell of it when it popped out of the socket. Thinking i had either sheared the nut or busted the breaker bar, I put it back on and suprise- the nut is loose! Good thing for all the wieght I've gained lately- it took all 200lbs to bust that thing.
Anyways- the lower arm bushing that meets the knuckle is where the clunky is coming from. it has about 1/4in of play in it. So i'm wondering where to get a new one of those?

 

[dsm-onster]

Anyways- the lower arm bushing that meets the knuckle is where the clunky is coming from. it has about 1/4in of play in it. So i'm wondering where to get a new one of those?

Pardon the "duh" question. I'm tired. . . What do you mean? The lower control arm balljoint? or the connnection to the chassis in the front or rear of the arm?

 

[wheeljack]

Oh, i meant the balljoint is totally spent.

 

[dsm-onster]

Oh! I was right. . . That's a first.

Better start figuring out WHY it went. . . It could be that the suspension suffered from a "pothole discovery" or a "new speed bump there". Or some other event that shocked the system beyond what it was designed to handle.

Mine kept going out because some moron drove 5000 miles on SEVERLY warped rotors. The hard braking eventually jiggled several lower arm balljoints loose AND several tierod end joint loose. This moron just kept driving her not knowing what to do until it dawned on him what the he!! was happening .

BTW, a boneyard should have a decent lower arm. Check for play just like you did w/ your car. . .

 

[wheeljack]

Well anyways I'm also changing the differential seal becuse its leaking.

Any tips on getting this axle out of there? Its really freakin stuck. It come out of the hub ok once i got the lower arms off. Then I pulled on the axle and the whole thing started to seperate.

 

[Mikelb]

Heavy duty flat-blade screw driver with a long handle... I went through this last night

I used a tire tool... it had a flat end, and I used it to pry in between the transmission and the axle cup

 

[wheeljack]

Ill try it tonight. Maybe i'll pick up some cheapo screwdrivers at harbor freight so i wont mind if they get chewed up. Stupid crowbars are too big to get any leverage up there.

 

[wheeljack]

well thats out, and I'm trying to pry that seal out. I've actually spent a lot more time trying to get the damn end link apart from the sway bar. I never understood why they make those bolts so small.

 

[Mikelb]

well thats out, and I'm trying to pry that seal out. I've actually spent a lot more time trying to get the damn end link apart from the sway bar. I never understood why they make those bolts so small.

Why are you doing that? If you're trying to get the axles out, I say remove the shocks, that will allow you to pivot the wheel hubs far enough out of the way to remove the axles.

make sure you take the end out of the hub first. It just makes things easier.

 

[wheeljack]

When I removed the fork thing to get to the axle, I ripped up the top of the end link pretty bad. So I figure I might as well replace it, since the dust cover on the ball joint is cut open now. The winter weather and road salt up here make every bolt a disaster to turn.