Timing belt VS timing chain

[eldiabloz13]

Now my brother has a jeep cherokee and it runs a timing chain. I picked up super street febuary and there is a engine on a page that says "higher education" and its also running a chain.

Now my question is why dont us dsm'ers run chains instead of belts. I know there has to be a reason why we dont and would love to know. If there isnt a reason then why dont we switch over? It should take care of most timing belt changes and not having to worry about it breaking.

 

[VTRICCO]

timing chains break also

 

[ChvyKc]

timing chains break also

Before I got into DSM's I was (and still am) a Starion freak. Timing chains are no better than timing belts. They will break the same way, trust me.

Besides, as long as you stay on top of your timing belt changes (every 70,000 miles according to Mitsubishi) then you should be fine. I actually just try to change mine at least once very two years. I only put about 1,000 miles a year on my car so it would take me 70 years to change mine if I did it by the manufacturers recommendation.

 

[siceclipse]

imagine that breaking
i wonder what it would break?

 

[VTRICCO]

well if it breaks it would still be containted inside the timing cover and i cant see it taking out anything else besides the vavle train from going out of timing

 

[spyderturbo007]

My wifes 2000 Celica GT-S has a timing chain and when I called the dealer to inquire about proper maintenance, they told me that there was no recommended replacement interval. Struck me as odd.......

 

[FORMONTOYA]

True, timing chains break also.

However, (just assuming) I imagine the reason that some manufacturers made a move to belts as opposed to chains just boils down to what they're trying to control.........

Chains started out (for me) on older V8s. The only thing they had to control was 1 cam to 1 crank..........easy enough to accomplish with 2 gears and a chain. Plus you have to take into account the material technology they had "back-in-the-day".

Now try to control 1 crank to 2 cams and an oil pump, plus a balance shaft. That chain now has to "worm" it's way through the front of the engine, plus now there has to be some way to keep a "tension" on the chain so it doesn't develop any slack and come off the "cogs". Not impossible with a chain, but definitely easier and cheaper with a belt.



my 0.02

 

[eldiabloz13]

alrighty then. Thanks guys

 

[1990talon]

Chains wear and break but as they wear they gain slak witch causes them to lose a little bit of time so they would be harder to tune as they got old and wear, as the way the belts are designed they dont stretch and stay in time until they break. That is just a guess but my best one.


Brandon

 

[VTRICCO]

belts are cheaper than chains not in quality but material cost

 

[eldiabloz13]

so my bros jeep dosent have as much to worry about as our cars. Also the timing chain in super street had what seemed to be 2 chains together. Now thats a high perfomance motor there using why is that?

On the contrary belts stretch as well. Just not like metal im sure. Interesting facts you all have on the chain vs belt. My friend has a titanium chain for his competion bike. Street bike and peddle bike have them. He gets them becuase there lighter and stronger. What if we used those...same results? I know a lot of money would be wasted on them but im just saying would they outlast the belts?

 

[VTRICCO]

no they make stronger belts for high power applications

 

[eldiabloz13]

damn foiled once again


So whats ths strongest belt...kevlar?

 

[Elvenhome21]

the toyota 22r engine is used a lot in mini stocks, stock the engine only has a single row chain. That is the weakest link in the entire engine, once they upgrade to a double row chain and then they don't have any problems with that engine.

Yes Kevlar belts are the strongest. Expensive, but you don't have to replace it ever again. Even in racing applications for the most part.

 

[VTRICCO]

if it can save a cops life yea

 

[ChvyKc]

Chains wear and break but as they wear they gain slak witch causes them to loose a little bit of time so they would be harder to tune as they got old and wear, as the way the belts are desinged they dont strech and stay in time until they break. That is just a guess but my best one.


Brandon

It's the same thing as if you have ever had a chain driven ATV. The chain will eventually start to have slack and cause the chain to pop off the gear on the rear axle. I've been stranded numerous times in the woods due to that same problem.

 

[islandertalon]

Chains weight more and requires more to turn it, belts equal more power because they weight less. Chains are noisy compared to belts. Belts are a lot easier and cheaper also.

 

[eldiabloz13]

ahh i love you all. Such fast replys. So i can buy a nice kevlar timing belt and NEVER have to worry about it snapping? Thats really amazing. HKS the best kevlar of is there others.

As for the cop thing. My friend with the peddle bike broke a kevlar frame before. Very weird.

 

[GSX93DSM]

I work for Toyota and if the car has a chain we don't replace it untill it makes noise. However, it could cause problems before it makes a noise. There about the same as a timing belt. We never check and see it the chain needs replaced. I rather have a belt, but that is my opinion.

 

[perley03]

It's the same thing as if you have ever had a chain driven ATV. The chain will eventually start to have slack and cause the chain to pop off the gear on the rear axle. I've been stranded numerous times in the woods due to that same problem.

Speaking of ATV's, all the newer sport ones (Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Polaris) have DOHC and run a chain to both cams, and it uses a tensioner just like our engines do to maintain proper pressure.

To the OP: The reason why alot of manufactures go to a timing belt is with a chain, it has to be internal, and has to be oil lubricated. This adds to the weight and size of an engine. Imagine doing a timing chain job on our cars, it's hard enough as it is with a belt. Another reason is cost, wear, and noise. Ever hop into a newer car? You can't hear the damm thing run, and that is what people want. They want their cars nowadays to run longer, quiter, faster, and smoother.
Another reason is the "what-if" when the chain breaks. When the belt breaks, the only thing that it wipes out is the valves in the head (unfortunatly), imagine what happens if the chain breaks. Probally will need a new block and/or head if something goes wrong.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Just because you get a kevlar timing belt doesn't mean you're good for a lifetime or else everyone would be doing it. I think they would get old and break just the same.

It's probably like using synthetic motor oil over dino oil. Sure syn is rated to be good for 10k miles but do you leave it in for that long? No, you still change it at 3k. At least most people do.

Kevlar belt is not bulletproof. It's just more bling than anything else.

All belts will eventually wear out, but it is also has a lot to do with enviroment. A stock belt wont hold nearly as well as a kevlar belt in a racing application were under hood temps are substantually hotter for long periods of time. If the stock belt last for 50-70000 miles and you replace with a kevlar belt, it will most likly be the last belt you put on unless you grenade a motor.

I disagree with "syn is rated to be good for 10k miles but do you leave it in for that long?"
I have ran Amsoil in the race car for 3 years, I just change the filter every month and top off the oil. The hauler has used the same amsoil for the last 20,000 miles, minus filter changes. I send in a sample to amsoil they analize it and it always comes back good.

 

[Defiant]

The drawback to a Kevlar belt is that they don't [didn't used to] make a Kevlar for the front balance shaft. Which won't matter if you pull the balance shafts. Yes, they are good for the life of the engine, which won't be over 200K, if that.
Belts are also better than chains for long runs such as in DOHC designs. The double-row cam chain on the Datsun 2000 is lucky to live 30K, and does all the damage a belt loss does when it fails, plus wiping out the front timing cover and cam cover.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Heres a kevlar balance shaft belt

http://www.greddy.com/products/display/?Category=engine&SubCategory=36
MIT 4G63 balancer belt Lancer Evolution 13534501 54.50

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Cool!

 

[99gst_racer]

Imagine the harmonics transfered through a timing chain. I've known many guys that did t-belt conversions on their old SBC's just for that reason alone.

 

[1990talon]

Imagine the harmonics transfered through a timing chain. I've known many guys that did t-belt conversions on their old SBC's just for that reason alone.

Why didn't they just do gear drive?