1G Pop up headlights won't go down! (a bit long)

[96bmwm3]

On my 1990 Talon AWD, it looks like the previous owner did the sleepy eye mod. That was all well and good until the other day when I tried to lower the headlights and nothing happened. Then a couple of minutes later the headlights lowered. Hmmm, bad connection somewhere?

This happened a few times prior, but now I can't get the things to go down at all. If I lower them manually I can get them to pop back up by hitting the button, but when I hit the button again, nothing.

The chicklet is installed and I've checked the voltage to the headlight pop up button. The #1 pin always has 12 volts. I've checked the switch itself and it alternates continuity from pin #1 to pin #2 when the buttons in and between pin #1 and #3 when it's out. (I'm not sure if the pins are labeled #2 and #3, but the switch functions as my manual says).

I've measure 12v on one of the pins at the headlight motor when the button is pushed in and 10V on the same pin when the button is up (should lower the lights).

It seems to me that the 2 different states of the button should send 12v to different pins at the headlight motor?? Is this correct? What should the connection at the headlight motor "see"?

I don't know if the previous owner made any other modifications to this circuit that may have had an effect.

Help!

 

[VapedTalon]

Well I'm in sort of the same boat as you. I had my drivers side pop up light start acting up. It will only go up half way and then won't go down. I haven't had the time to rip it out as of yet and it cost me. It turns out that somewhere in the connection to that pop up motor it has shorted. Fried my sub AMP before I traced the problem and removed my pop up motor relay.

From the sounds of it your relay may be the culprit. I would check your headlight relay to make sure it is functioning properly. Other then that my only idea is that the pin 3 has shorted out somewhere before it gets to the relay.

I'm not all that great at figuring out electrical problems, but at least its a start.

 

[96bmwm3]

Could someone point me in the direction of a schematic? My Haynes manual doesn't have the pop-up circuitry in it!

Or if someone has a method to test the headlight pop up relay.

 

[Pro3racer]

Can somebody help out here..i'm in the same boat. My pop-ups either go down and stay down when i turn the lights off...or they blink 5 times up and down and stay up, its very ammusing..but very annoying.

 

[96bmwm3]

Well, if you’re having trouble getting your headlights to pop up then maybe we can help each other out here. Do this for me…disconnect the plug going into the headlight motor and measure the voltage at each of the connections in that plug. Draw a simple diagram showing the layout of the plug and which connection has ~12V!! I’ve done this on my car; this will tell us which connection engages the motor to turn each way. I’ll bet money that the connection I’m seeing 12V on is different than the one you are seeing it on. This may not be an immediate fix for both of us, but it may give us a means of tracing out the wiring or whether the relay is screwed up.

I’ll put together a simple diagram and show you where I’m seeing 12V.

 

[ROOKIE1]

I used to have this problem .Turns out with my 90 , the hinges were dirty . All I did was spray alot of wd40 on the hinges to get a smoother operation . When you crank them up or down manually , is it difficult to turn ? Should be pretty easy . We are talking about 12-16 years of dirt , grime , and salt .

 

[96bmwm3]

Nope, not difficult at all to crank by hand. I just need someone to check voltage at the connector (and relay would be nice) to see which terminals get 12V and when (lights turned on, off, headlight button pushed, or not, etc.) It really wouldn't take much time.

If someone would do that at the connector to the headlight motor and the relay I could possibly tell where my problem is.

 

[sillyme]

where is the headlight pop up relay? a picture would help alot. thanks

found both relay relating to the popup headlights. both are good. I'm not getting any power to the motor for the "down" position. anyone know where the connection is by the instrument cluster? i traced the wires from the headlight motor back to the firewall. now i just need to trace from inside the car by the driver side instrument cluster

 

[91'AWDFUN]

I just got my 90 talon AWD and my lights stay up. You can move them down manually? where is this at on the car.

 

[Otto]

where is the headlight pop up relay? a picture would help alot. thanks

found both relay relating to the popup headlights. both are good. I'm not getting any power to the motor for the "down" position. anyone know where the connection is by the instrument cluster? i traced the wires from the headlight motor back to the firewall. now i just need to trace from inside the car by the driver side instrument cluster

I got my headlight doors to move after spraying contact cleaner on the contacts of MB852958. It's an electrical box below the fuse box in the drivers footwell. It's screwed directly to the chassis behind a plastic interior panel.

Google gives hardly any hits with the part number. But it's german name (Abblendlicht-Relais) refers to the headlights.

EDIT: I found this part on caps. It's illustration is on a page called "HEADLAMP POP UP DEVICE RELAY ETC."

 

[Justin Lauscher]

I art thou callith back from the deadith

So ever since I bought my 90 talon I've battled this issue, the headlights go up and operate fine but they do not retract on their own.
I've tried swapping that box in the footwell, as well as the relays.
The motors seem fine, they don't have any issues lifting the lights and the hinges are nice and smooth on them.

Has anyone had any other issues that they fixed pertaining to this? If it were something simple Thad be great, car is currently surrounded by airplane parts and would be a little challenging to get a battery back in and good.

I also recall trying to jump the connection from the relay in the footwell to get them to go down, but no good, not even a wink.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Here is the wiring diagram for the pop up's. It looks like the circuit breakers in the headlight motors themselves are the culprit. I have never looked at mine because they work great, but it appears that they have a circuit breaker in them because a manufacturer can't be liable for an accident that occurs when the headlights don't work. IF you can find the circuit breaker, try to reset it and see if they still won't retract.

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Page 225 of the FSM, if you need that info. I would also be looking for limit switches but they look like they are inside the pop up motors. My old '67 Camaro has Hide Away headlights and it has limit switches on the open and close modes.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Both motors "failing" in the same way at the same time seems unlikely.

@Justin Lauscher you mention all sorts of things but not the pop-up switch. This will prevent the headlights from going down if it is activated or somehow "bypassed". Check operation of the switch itself by measuring continuity through it on the bench:

• when "clicked"-in, there should be continuity between pins 1 and 3
• when "clicked"-out, there should be continuity between pins 1 and 4

If that checks it could very well be in the wiring. Check continuity between pin 4 of the pop-up switch and pin 5 of the passing control relay (in the driver side foot well). If okay, go on.
Since you swapped passing control relays, I'll assume one of them is good. From there, check continuity of passing control relay pin 2 to pin 5 of each pop-up motor.

 

[Justin Lauscher]

Both motors "failing" in the same way at the same time seems unlikely.

@Justin Lauscher you mention all sorts of things but not the pop-up switch. This will prevent the headlights from going down if it is activated or somehow "bypassed". Check operation of the switch itself by measuring continuity through it on the bench:

• when "clicked"-in, there should be continuity between pins 1 and 3
• when "clicked"-out, there should be continuity between pins 1 and 4

If that checks it could very well be in the wiring. Check continuity between pin 4 of the pop-up switch and pin 5 of the passing control relay (in the driver side foot well). If okay, go on.
Since you swapped passing control relays, I'll assume one of them is good. From there, check continuity of passing control relay pin 2 to pin 5 of each pop-up motor.

Forgot to mention too I swapped one of them from my parts car, never bothered to actually check them tho. Lol. @1990TSIAWDTALON thanks for the tip and schematic, I'll look into it

 

[Daniel Skelton]

Both motors "failing" in the same way at the same time seems unlikely.

@Justin Lauscher you mention all sorts of things but not the pop-up switch. This will prevent the headlights from going down if it is activated or somehow "bypassed". Check operation of the switch itself by measuring continuity through it on the bench:

• when "clicked"-in, there should be continuity between pins 1 and 3
• when "clicked"-out, there should be continuity between pins 1 and 4

If that checks it could very well be in the wiring. Check continuity between pin 4 of the pop-up switch and pin 5 of the passing control relay (in the driver side foot well). If okay, go on.
Since you swapped passing control relays, I'll assume one of them is good. From there, check continuity of passing control relay pin 2 to pin 5 of each pop-up motor.

Just bought my 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS, I'm having pop up headlights problems. I don't know much on cars but me and a friend checked the wiring it seems to be getting power the pop up motor we disassembled doesn't seem to be broken. We oiled the mechanism with wd40. I don't know whats wrong otherwise the vehicle seems to be in great condition.

Need some help or feedback. The hand crank mechanism works fine but this headlight issues been really bothering me.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Could just be the pop up switch itself, not telling the motor to reverse.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Just bought my 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS, I'm having pop up headlights problems. I don't know much on cars but me and a friend checked the wiring it seems to be getting power the pop up motor we disassembled doesn't seem to be broken. We oiled the mechanism with wd40. I don't know whats wrong otherwise the vehicle seems to be in great condition.

Need some help or feedback. The hand crank mechanism works fine but this headlight issues been really bothering me.

What do your pop-ups do or not do?

Saying you're, "...having pop up headlights problem..." doesn't give us a great place to start from (i.e., Did you turn them on?). More information on the actual situation will help us help you.

 

[Daniel Skelton]

What do your pop-ups do or not do?

Saying you're, "...having pop up headlights problem..." doesn't give us a great place to start from (i.e., Did you turn them on?). More information on the actual situation will help us help you.

They wont go up or down when I switch on. It did a couple of times when I first bought it, it even made a clicking sound for a while in the engine bay when it was off. Now all activity has ceased but it hand cranks fine and the connection where the motor connects to still seems to be getting power. Linkage looked ok although we checked only the passenger side for issues i figured if the other side same thing. I am mistified

Also I thought the pop up button was only used to turn them down. And turning on headlights was supposed to pop them up. Sorry I'm very uninformed

 

[19Eclipse90]

The button (pop-up switch) to the left of the gauge cluster keeps them in the UP position if it is pressed (in), regardless of whether the headlights are illuminated.

Without the button pressed in, the motors should move up and down when the headlights are turned on and off, respectively, with the column switch.

 

[Daniel Skelton]

The button (pop-up switch) to the left of the gauge cluster keeps them in the UP position if it is pressed (in), regardless of whether the headlights are illuminated.

Without the button pressed in, the motors should move up and down when the headlights are turned on and off, respectively, with the column switch.

I suspect it must be a wiring issue. I'm baffled as to what I should do but today I got pop up headlight motors in mail. I hope if I just replace both mine with these it'll work

 

[19Eclipse90]

If you suspect it's a wiring issue, why would new motors fix the problem?

In my time with these cars, I've seen many headlight motors stop working. But they don't completely fail, they only stop doing one thing - either popping up or retracting back down, not usually both. That's why I asked what yours are doing: if they're both doing the same thing, it's unlikely that it's the motors. As I stated earlier in the thread, both motors failing in the same way at the same time is unlikely. The headlight motors themselves are quite easy to to test.

 

[Daniel Skelton]

If you suspect it's a wiring issue, why would new motors fix the problem?

In my time with these cars, I've seen many headlight motors stop working. But they don't completely fail, they only stop doing one thing - either popping up or retracting back down, not usually both. That's why I asked what yours are doing: if they're both doing the same thing, it's unlikely that it's the motors. As I stated earlier in the thread, both motors failing in the same way at the same time is unlikely. The headlight motors themselves are quite easy to to test.

Mine go neither up nor down although they had worked fine a couple times afterwards. When I turned car off I would here clicking sound in engine bay, now nothing. Although hand crank mechanism works fine and there still seems to be power going to the pop up motors from the adapters in the engine bay. Still pop ups don't budge. I tried oiling um, I took one side completely out, oiled and inspected it. I'm still clue less. must be a wiring issue but friend suggested that motors might just need to be replaced. I suspect its something simple I just haven't figured it out. I don't have proper tools to test yet.

 

[Just a new guy]

Since this thread seems to be active, decided to bump in.
Have my 1992 eclipse GS for about 2 years now, started out as a complete newbie on cars. Recently my pop ups stopped working completely, both of them. I was only able to raise or retract them by hand.
I fixed the one on the passenger side up yesterday, since it was an issue with the headlight itself, nothing too difficult. But the one on the drivers' side still wont budge, I have 2 spare motors in working condition, but they won't work either when connected. I believe it is a wiring issue, but I have no idea where to begin considering that. So my question would be, is there anything specifically for the drivers' side pop up considering wiring, relays and fuses that would most likely be the cause of the issue I am having here? Any response is appreciated and I am willing to provide any additional info that would allow anyone to help me out here.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Mines go neither up nor down although they had worked fine a couple times afterwards when i turn car off i would here clicking sound in engine bay now nothing although hand crank mechanism works fine and there srill seems to be power going to the pop up motors from the adapters in the engine bay, still pop ups dont budge i tried oiling um i took one side completely out oiled and imspected it im still clue less must be a wiring issue but freind suggested that motors might just need to be replaced i suspect its something simple i just havent figured it out i dont have proper tools to test yet

What happens if the button isn't pushed, the column switch is off, you manually drive the motors up, and then you:

-push the button?
-turn the column switch on?​

If nothing happens in either scenario, that's fine, I simply want to understand what you're dealing with here.

To test / inspect, disconnect the harness from the pop-up motor connector and probe the shown pins as instructed below. The idea is that between pins 1 and 2 you should have continuity of some consistent value (B) between 1 o'clock and clockwise to 12 o'clock. Then moving the probe from pin to pin 5, you should have continuity of some consistent value (A) between 7 o'clock and clockwise to 6 o'clock.

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If the probes maintain good contact throughout this inspection and the resistance value does not stay approximately the same in either of the described windows, the motor is "bad".

Since this thread seems to be active, decided to bump in.
Have my 1992 eclipse GS for about 2 years now, started out as a complete newbie on cars. Recently my pop ups stopped working completely, both of them. I was only able to raise or retract them by hand.
I fixed the one on the passenger side up yesterday, since it was an issue with the headlight itself, nothing too difficult. But the one on the drivers' side still wont budge, I have 2 spare motors in working condition, but they won't work either when connected. I believe it is a wiring issue, but I have no idea where to begin considering that. So my question would be, is there anything specifically for the drivers' side pop up considering wiring, relays and fuses that would most likely be the cause of the issue I am having here? Any response is appreciated and I am willing to provide any additional info that would allow anyone to help me out here.

Assuming all the wiring is good. Either the passing control relay or the pop-up motor relay could be suspect. Have you verified the wiring is good?
Checks for either of these components are here: 1ga headlight problem

 

[Just a new guy]

What happens if the button isn't pushed, the column switch is off, you manually drive the motors up, and then you:

-push the button?
-turn the column switch on?​

If nothing happens in either scenario, that's fine, I simply want to understand what you're dealing with here.

To test / inspect, disconnect the harness from the pop-up motor connector and probe the shown pins as instructed below. The idea is that between pins 1 and 2 you should have continuity of some consistent value (B) between 1 o'clock and clockwise to 12 o'clock. Then moving the probe from pin to pin 5, you should have continuity of some consistent value (A) between 7 o'clock and clockwise to 6 o'clock.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

If the probes maintain good contact throughout this inspection and the resistance value does not stay approximately the same in either of the described windows, the motor is "bad".


Assuming all the wiring is good. Either the passing control relay or the pop-up motor relay could be suspect. Have you verified the wiring is good?
Checks for either of these components are here: 1ga headlight problem

I do believe the wiring is fine, since I looked at the switch itself near the motor with a voltmeter yesterday and it did get readings. Although I cant provide any thing specific, since my understanding considering electricity is pathetic.
Also, disconnecting any of your mentioned relays, either the passing control or the pop up morot relay prevents the passenger side headlight working as well, so can I assume that both relays are in working order or do I need to test their terminals as well, since they are side oriented?