ATTN: LEGISLATURE INTRODUCED TO BRING 95 dB law to VA!

[QuickSilverGSX9]

ATTN: LEGISLATURE INTRODUCED TO BRING 95 dB law to VA!

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URGENT LEGISLATIVE ALERT

Legislation to Allow Reasonable Exhaust System Modifications

Introduced in Virginia

Legislation (H.B. 2895) that would allow Virginia’s vehicle hobbyists to install and use aftermarket modified exhaust systems that meet a 95-decibel limit under a fair and predictable test standard has been introduced in the Virginia State Legislature by Delegate William Fralin (Del_Fralin@house.state.va.us)



We Urge You to Contact Your Virginia State Legislators Immediately to Support H.B. 2895

· H.B. 2895 would remove subjective provisions in the law and force compliance with an objectively measured standard. Under the standard, exhaust noise could not exceed a sound reading of 95-decibels under a fair and predictable test (Society of Automotive Engineers J1169 - May 1998).

· H.B. 2895 would benefit consumers, the aftermarket industry and police officers who are charged with enforcing the law.

· H.B. 2895 would remedy the enforcement policy currently used by police officers in which nearly all exhaust systems not of a type installed as standard factory equipment are considered illegal - even where noise levels are not excessive or unusual. This policy leaves enthusiasts, exhaust system manufacturers and dealers without recourse.

· H.B. 2895 recognizes that aftermarket exhaust systems are designed to make vehicles run more efficiently without increasing emissions.

· H.B. 2895 recognizes that aftermarket exhaust systems offer increased durability and performance, which can make a vehicle safer by improving its ability to merge, pass, travel uphill, etc.

· H.B. 2895 challenges the erroneous assumption that enthusiasts who equip their vehicles with modified exhaust systems are involved in illegal street racing.

Contact Delegate Fralin (Del_Fralin@house.state.va.us)to thank him. Contact your own state legislators in Richmond immediately by phone, fax or e-mail to request their support for this legislation. If you need assistance in determining who your legislators are and their contact information, please contact the Virginia Legislature’s General Information Line at (804) 698-1500. This information can also be obtained by calling the SEMA Washington, D.C. office at 202/783-6007, ext. 38 or via the Internet at http://www.semasan.com/ContactYourLegislator.aspx Please e-mail a copy of your letter to stevem@sema.org or fax to 202/783-6024 or mail to:

SEMA Washington Office

1317 F Street, NW, Suite 500

Washington, DC 20004

Attention: Steve McDonald

[QuickSilverGSX9]

No one is excited about this? I want everyone on here to start e-mailing and calling, please. I've already started e-mailing and will continue to do everything I can to get this passed, I'm extremely tired of being ticketed for an exhaust system that is not nearly as loud as some stock cars (I mean, come on, the Viper...hell, the SRT-4 dosen't even come with mufflers!), and even passes Va. emissions with flying colors! Anyone else feel like they're being treated unfairly?

-Bill

[D_Eclipse9916]

Ill contact him as soon as I can

[nukefission]

Excellent. I will be doing my part to contact them even though I do not live in a heavily targeted area.

[marcmsj]

Originally Posted by QuickSilverGSX9

No one is excited about this? I want everyone on here to start e-mailing and calling, please. I've already started e-mailing and will continue to do everything I can to get this passed, I'm extremely tired of being ticketed for an exhaust system that is not nearly as loud as some stock cars (I mean, come on, the Viper...hell, the SRT-4 dosen't even come with mufflers!), and even passes Va. emissions with flying colors! Anyone else feel like they're being treated unfairly?

-Bill

not having a muffler has nothing to do with emissions. but yeah, i see what you're saying. i never really understood virginia and their ### laws :thumbdown

[QuickSilverGSX9]

Just to clarify, when mentioning the Viper and SRT-4, I was talking about how loud they are. I've ran some SRT-4's (only at the track of course), and even stock they are quite loud, I'd say even louder than my car, and I have a 3" exhaust system. So, wasn't saying the lack of mufflers had anything to do with emissions, I was saying my car, with my exhaust system, passed with flying colors. Okay, everyone back to work! e-mail and call your arses off!

-Bill

[WHite97RS]

Wow, this is comming after two illegal exhaust tickets just because the state trooper heard it and said he thought it was too loud, meanwhile a huge jacked up truck with only headers drives by and he pays no mind to it??????? i am so excited about this..... ill start emailing ASAP

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally Posted by WHite97RS

Wow, this is comming after two illegal exhaust tickets just because the state trooper heard it and said he thought it was too loud, meanwhile a huge jacked up truck with only headers drives by and he pays no mind to it??????? i am so excited about this..... ill start emailing ASAP

werd to that.. i got pulled for exhaust once while my buddy in his open header camaro was peelin wheel behind me!

sucks i think my car is louder than 95Db.. haha.. oh well

[ngskn]

I hate to throw cold water on the festivities, but this bill could actually make things worse. It leaves too many questions and no details about how it will be enforced. It reads:
"No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle so that the exhaust system emits in excess of 95 decibels as measured by the Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169. For the purposes of this section, a motorcycle shall not be deemed a motor vehicle."

So you plan to install a new exhaust and want to test it? Ok, just whip out your decibel meter and look up the J1169 procedure. Oh wait, you can't, because it is a proprietary standard and you need to pay $57 to the SAE just to find out if your car will be legal.

Even if you happen to have a decibel meter, in order to know if you are legal, you need to know how the test is conducted. That is one of the many problems with this law. You can look up the law on the Internet, but the Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169 is owned by a private organization which does not give it out, they SELL it. You can be sure the cops will have it when they are writing the tickets though.

So a cop pulls you over, gets in your car and starts revving the engine while another cop holds a meter to your exhaust. What is he doing, The J1169 test? What about that semi that just went past while he was taking the measurement? Why is he opening my hood? Does he need to do that to measure the exhaust noise? Well you won't know if the test is performed accurately because the law does not say exactly how it is to be performed. You need to pay extra for that privilege. This is effectively a SECRET LAW.

By the way, those cars that come without mufflers will be exempt from the law since it only applies to MODIFIED exhaust systems. So if a car puts out 105 decibels in stock condition, the owner can not legally put a muffler on it to quiet it down to 98 decibels. The law will not apply to motorcycles either, so those Harleys with open exhaust can keep on revving.

Imagine this bill was written for speed limits instead of exhaust noise. This is what it would be like: All the roads have speed limits but there are no signs telling you what the limits are. You could get pulled over and get a ticket for exceeding the limit, and not knowing it would not be an excuse. In order to know the speed limit you would have to go to a store and buy a piece of paper which tells you the limit. Faster cars would be passing by you because they have a faster speed limit. That is what this law amounts to.

Just think about the implications and how it would be enforced before you run out endorsing it.

[QuickSilverGSX9]

Alright, if what you say is true, and the way the exhaust is measured (decibels) is not explicitly explained in the bill, then, why not go and pay the fee to learn exactly how it IS measured, get it measured, and in doing so get your car legalized? Is this extremely difficult or complicated? Because, let me tell you, I would gladly pay the one-time-fee of 100-200 dollars to actually have my exhaust legalized. I say this only because I've been pulled over 4 times in the last 2 months, and at 87 dollars a pop, it's a lot more than you're suggesting.

I can see where you're coming from however, if they really are going to make this what you called a "secret law", then it would be diffuclt and there would be the opportunity for police to take advantage of the ambiguity of the law and start poking around the car. However, most car enthusiasts, I would hope, know that there's no way to measure the exhaust under the hood. What will they do, hold the meter against the exhaust manifold? The only way they'll measure the exhaust is at the muffler end.

I don't know if I'm getting the point of the semi rolling by, are you talking about making it louder and therefore the meter reading higher? I think you're reaching there man, it could happen...but then again, a meteor could fall out of the sky right now and level your house....ain't gonna happen, but it could!

However, all your speculation on the bill...is just that, speculation. Honestly, we have no idea how explicit the bill will read, or the end result. However, I can tell you this, if we are proactive and right now in the early stages, take the initiative and find out how it WILL be worded, we can work from there. No point to simply say it COULD make things worse, and give up.

[QuickSilverGSX9]

I also would like to point out that if you read the bill, it is aimed at ending the enforcement procedure for exhaust systems right now. On top of that, read the initial paragraph:

"· H.B. 2895 would remove subjective provisions in the law and force compliance with an objectively measured standard. Under the standard, exhaust noise could not exceed a sound reading of 95-decibels under a fair and predictable test (Society of Automotive Engineers J1169 - May 1998)."

The test should (read...should) be a fair and predictable test. Next, let's look at the actual purpose of the bill.

"· H.B. 2895 would benefit consumers, the aftermarket industry and police officers who are charged with enforcing the law.

· H.B. 2895 would remedy the enforcement policy currently used by police officers in which nearly all exhaust systems not of a type installed as standard factory equipment are considered illegal - even where noise levels are not excessive or unusual. This policy leaves enthusiasts, exhaust system manufacturers and dealers without recourse."

Both those points are designed to benefit the consumers and aftermarket community (read into that, it will help the aftermarket industry make money...very important). I may be losing my mind, but I'm going to guess some of the funding for the lobbiest(s) who lobbied for this bill was receiving in part of their income from someone in the aftermarket industry. Why would they propose a bill that will cause more problems then it solved? Why would they make it ambiguous, remember, they want to make more money, by...my guess would be selling more LEGAL exhaust systems.

The second point actually goes on to explain why the current law is uneffective and unfair. Maybe I'm being too optimistic with my hopes, however, I see mostly good things coming from this bill...or atleast from it's alleged purpose.

Feel free to educate me if I'm missing something, I have no problem learning something new and seeing the error of my thinking.

-Bill

[ngskn]

You can quote those "points" all you want but they don't mean a thing because they are not part of the bill. The only language contained in the bill is the following:

"No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle so that the exhaust system emits in excess of 95 decibels as measured by the Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169. For the purposes of this section, a motorcycle shall not be deemed a motor vehicle."

That's it. Nothing else. I don't know all the details of the so-called fair and predictible test but I do know that it is performed with the engine running at either 50% or 75% of its redline or maximum horsepower. That means someone has to either look at your tach, or put a light under the hood to get the engine rpm's. What do you think will happen if you have a 12,000 rpm aftermarket tach? What will happen if your tach is not working? Will the police even look at the tach or will they go right under the hood? Who do you think will be sitting in your car revving the engine to conduct the test? All these details, if they are not in the law, are open for the police to interpret however they want.

As far as the truck driving past, yes I was referring to it affecting the noise level during the test. Have you ever been clocked on radar when you know for a fact that you were not going the speed claimed? It can and does happen all the time, and there is little you can do about it. I don't think it is reaching at all to say that a loud vehicle could roll by while a cop was testing your exhaust.

This test is neither fair nor predictible. If you don't even know how the test will be performend how can you predict the results? If the details are not publicly available to anyone who wants them, it is not fair. If it only applies to cars and not motorcycles it is not fair either. If it only applies to modified exhaust it is not fair. Consider that anyone who owns a car with a loud factory exhaust will not be able to replace it with the same equipment.

I'm not saying the current law is fair, and shouldn't be changed, but the proposed bill is very flawed. And where do you think that arbitrary number of 95 decibels came from? It's actually lower than what you might currently get a ticket for.

Yes a lot of this is speculation, but past experience has shown that the police will take every inch they can get. The motorist nearly ALWAYS comes out with the short end of the stick when there is abiguity. As for the General Assembly, remember this is the same group that "accidently" reinstituted the Blue Laws last year. They are quite capable of passing crazy messed up laws without regard to the consequences. They have a lot of business during the legislative session and this is just one minor little law.

P.S. Here is the URL for tracking the bill:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...2895&Submit=Go

[WHite97RS]

I may be mistaken but i believe the test is taken at 3 feet from the exhaust at idle and then 6 feet at 3000 RPM, i read about it in either super street or import tuner i cant remeber. ill try and find the exact issue though.

[ngskn]

Ok I still don't have the actual document, but found a better description which says "engine must be held steady at 75% of rated peak horsepower RPM." (How are cops are supposed to know the peak rated horsepower RPM of every car on the road?) I wonder whether they will use the car's tach or just pop your hood and use a timing light? If they pop the hood, they can write tickets for any other violations they might see under there. Anyway here is the link, it is down towards the bottom of the page. The 4,500 rpm is for a WRXSTI. There are probably other details such as environmental conditions, etc. in the actual standard. Those details would be important in court, but you would have to pay the $57 to SAE first, .
http://mzmperformance.com/Merchant2/...ory_Code=SubEX

[Zenja]

Here in Saskatchewan, the test is a meter that's a few feet away from the muffler. The noise can't exceed 83dB. Do you know how quiet 83dB is? I wish this place wasn't so stupid with laws.

[QuickSilverGSX9]

Okay, I looked at the bill as it is being proposed right now, and I agree, that there is very little information given on the test. In fact, it's just the earlier law being amended. However, as you pointed out, the manufacturer conducted the J1169 test for their exhaust systems, I will contact the manufacturer of my exhaust and see if they as well have conducted this test, if they have, I will obtain documentaion of the test being done, and as far I know (once again, I am no lawyer) this should be enough proof of being innocent. If they haven't, well, I'll discuss this with them and go from there, perhaps they know how it can be done, etc.

As I see it, the point is to not even let the police need to test your car, if I can, I'd like to obtain documentation/proof that my exhaust is legal, so, when (notice I don't say if) they pull me over, I can provide it and I can be on my way. Also, I'd like to point out that you are forgetting how amended the bill in question will be, I'm positive things will be added to make it more clear, because, as I stated earlier, SEMA or other manufacturers are backing this bill (because they stand to make the most profit from this bill) and would not put this through without making it easier on us (the consumers). However, both of us are just speculating and we could argue this til we are blue in the face, let me know if that's something you'd like to do.

-Bill

[ngskn]

I just had a chat with Steve from SEMA who filled in a lot of background information. While Del. Fralin very nice to introduce this bill, I definitely don't see it going anywhere in its current form. The bill was modeled on a California law, but introduced differently. The 95 decibel figure was just picked as something that worked in California so it is somewhat random. All the details, including enforcement, are totally up in the air. There are several scenarios and anything can happen.

One important point is the test is not designed to be done at the roadside (although that could theoretically happen). It's possible that compliance could be certified through the exhaust manufacturer, or through an annual inspection along with the safety inspection. Another possibility is that a cop could give you a ticket and you would need to take the car to be tested somewhere. In all probability the test would be at the motorist's expense, regardless of the pass or fail outcome. Virginia does not have the funds to set up an actual inspection program.

Don't bother contacting your exhaust manufacturer yet. Although that is one possibility, I can't see the state police buying off on it. The law has a ton of loopholes and all the scenarios have some complications. An obvious one is that any change to the engine's stock configuration such as a cam swap will alter the exhaust volume.

At this point the bill is referred to a transportation subcommittee. I personally don't have much expectation it will become law in this short session with so many details unaddressed. If it does, I expect a few more years of tweaking before it is fully sorted out. I hope along the way, the SAE J1169 standard gets put into the code or regulation somewhere, rather than forcing people to purchase it from the SAE. It is definitely worthwhile for everyone to contact his or her legislators. It's really too bad this didn't start out with 96 or 97 dB in the original bill.

[QuickSilverGSX9]

Alright, well that's something. I just got word back from my exhaust manufacturer, and they said they did not perform any decibel test on it, nor do they know how to do it. Very dissapointing, especially since it's a fairly famous shop.

I'm happy that the test is not to be done at roadside, where a lot of other factors would confuse and complicate the legality of the exhaust. I understood the bill was in a transportation subcommittee and most likely wasn't going to be a law any time soon, but the mere fact it was simply based off a califronia law and is known to need major tweaking is a little dissapointing.

Only the future will tell how effective this bill will be, however, as I stated in a previous post, action speaks louder then words, we still need everyone we can get to contact their legislators to get this modified and pushed through. At the risk of sounding corny, if we work together we can get it done, just need a little faith.

-Bill

p.s. Thanks for finding out all this information ngskn, knowledge is power.