Alignment is terrible, need help fixing it!

[BadAss4Bangers]

Okay so today I went to get my alignment since I have not had one done since owning the car. I brought the car to Town Fair Tire and they told me that the manufacture does not specify Front/rear camber and caster adjustments so now my alignment looks like this....Yuck!

So basically they told me to research on my own on how to align my car and then they will re-align for free grr. So could someone just tell me what needs to be loosened in order for town fair to fix my alignment?

Not sure if you need to know this but, I am sitting on Koni Sport struts with GC Coilover sleeves lowered about 1.5".

-Ben

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[honda_burner]

They gave you that b.s. story because they didn't feel like doing or didn't know how to do it. The machine SHOWS them what to loosen/adjust. They did a toe and go. But your camber will be off because the car is lowered. You would have to buy camber kits to correct that and bring it to a reputable shop and have it done right. For them to correctly align every single vehicle would take hours so they choose to do the only aspect of the alignment that you will feel. The toe.

 

[BadAss4Bangers]

They gave you that b.s. story because they didn't feel like doing or didn't know how to do it. The machine SHOWS them what to loosen/adjust. They did a toe and go. But your camber will be off because the car is lowered. You would have to buy camber kits to correct that and bring it to a reputable shop and have it done right. For them to correctly align every single vehicle would take hours so they choose to do the only aspect of the alignment that you will feel. The toe.

Gotcha about being lowered. So I would need these?

STM: SPC ADJUSTABLE BALLJOINT / FRONT CAMBER KIT | 67170

STM: REAR CAMBER KIT 2G DSM (95-99)

 

[WillRaceForBeer]

Without camber adjustment parts shops won't be able to get it much closer. If you want the camber to be even and caster to be a bit better, start researching camber adjustment for front and rear. I've been very happy with the Ingalls front and rear camber kits. The way these kits work, they have 2 adjustment points per wheel on each A arm, so they can adjust camber and caster (to a lesser degree).

Front:
Rubber Bushings: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/IEC-35760/
Poly Bushings: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/IEC-35750/

Rear:
http://www.iapdirect.com/mitsubishi-eagle-dodge-chrysler-ingalls-rear-camber-kit-35850.html

Note: Sold per wheel, so you need 2 of each kit.

 

[BadAss4Bangers]

Without camber adjustment parts shops won't be able to get it much closer. If you want the camber to be even and caster to be a bit better, start researching camber adjustment for front and rear. I've been very happy with the Ingalls front and rear camber kits. The way these kits work, they have 2 adjustment points per wheel on each A arm, so they can adjust camber and caster (to a lesser degree).

Cool thanks for the info, Ill research it.

Edit: When I get home tonight I will have to make sure that my car already doesn't have those kits now that I saw what they look like. Ill take pictures and post them up. Thanks for the help all.

 

[jtmcinder]

There are only two explanation for the caster values: (1) your car has been in an accident and (2) they are completely incompetent and either didn't put the reflectors on your wheels correctly, didn't do a full caster/camber swing, or their machine is totally effed.

On the assumption that your car hasn't been in a head-on collision, get your money back and go elsewhere.

 

[BadAss4Bangers]

There are only two explanation for the caster values: (1) your car has been in an accident and (2) they are completely incompetent and either didn't put the reflectors on your wheels correctly, didn't do a full caster/camber swing, or their machine is totally effed.

On the assumption that your car hasn't been in a head-on collision, get your money back and go elsewhere.

Yeah the car was definitely never in an accident so I think I will take your advice and go elsewhere. They did not even try to fix the caster (see the before and after are exactly the same) because they did not know how to . There is a reputable performance shop about 45 minutes away that does advanced alignment/ corner balancing that I might give a shot. Much more money but it should be worth it.

on a side note: Shouldn't they be able to adjust the camber to at least oem specs without buying a camber kit?

 

[Doubleot]

Yeah, I'd go back and ask for a refund.

 

[jtmcinder]

They did not even try to fix the caster (see the before and after are exactly the same) because they did not know how to .

Now you're making the mistake. Caster is not adjustable on a 2G (or many other cars, for that matter). It's completely normal for the before and after caster to be the same. The problem is that it says that you only have a degree or so of caster and 2Gs have a lot more than that ... unless the car is bent. If you're sure that the car isn't bent, then they didn't measure the car correctly, either because they didn't put the reflectors on correctly, didn't do the caster swing correctly, or have a broken machine.

Don't go back and say "you didn't fix my caster ... gimme my money back." Go back and say "it's impossible for these readings to be correct ... gimme my money back."

But be sure that your car isn't bent. If your sub-frame (aka K-member) is pushed back (and somehow the compressions arms moved, too), then that might be the correct values for caster.

 

[honda_burner]

on a side note: Shouldn't they be able to adjust the camber to at least oem specs without buying a camber kit?

With the lowering kit that is virtually impossible without other suspension parts to help compensate for the drop. Its just one of those things you live with when you lower your car.

 

[BoredDSM]

I think u guys are reading it incorrectly. The caster is at 3.7 and 4 which is still in spec and close enough. The camber is the one at 1 degree.

It is perfectly fine what the shop did. Your car does not provide camber adjustments and they adjusted the toe so you do not further damage your tires.

 

[jtmcinder]

I switched to a difference computer and screen ... lo and behold, I did misread it. Apologies.

This isn't as clear-cut, therefore. If you arrived without a camber kit or handful of washers with longer bolts (for the rear), then the shop can be partly forgiven. The machine will tell them that only toe can be adjusted. If they are smart enough to know that you always set camber before toe (because camber changes cause toe changes, but toe changes don't cause camber changes), then they might not have tried the toe because they knew it would have to be redone when the camber was fixed.

With all that said, I don't agree that letting the car go with .3 of rear toe-in on one side (and only one side) is OK. If they maxed out the toe-adjuster from the car being lowered, then, maybe, but I doubt that's the case. More likely is that the rear-left toe-arm is not turning smoothly.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I gotta admit, last night I put my nose to the screen and was like "I don't see major caster problems..." but since I was a few beer deep I just let it go till the morning.

Glad to see I wasn't as cross-eyed as I thought.

As Jtoby has mentioned, there are definitely some unknowns. Why is the car so wonky with regards to camber? Half a camber kit installed? Has to be, not even my alignment shop would do that to me if they had the option/know-how. The OP will have to be the one to tell us. And you can absolutely bet on some a near-seized toe adjuster on that left side.

Sorry for an entirely redundant post because I realize that what I said was just covered and I realize there's already been some "what kit" discussion, etc. But OP, do you know if you currently have a camber kit of some sort installed?

 

[jtmcinder]

I wish I had the "one too many beers" excuse. I flat-out failed to blow up the picture and misread it. I was using my wife's lap-top.

With regard to the camber, I have a simple guess: the car is listing to the right by about a half degree. This is why the left side has an extra degree of camber compared to the right.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I wish I had the "one too many beers" excuse. I flat-out failed to blow up the picture and misread it. I was using my wife's lap-top.

With regard to the camber, I have a simple guess: the car is listing to the right by about a half degree. This is why the left side has an extra degree of camber compared to the right.

An excellent thought, though on my car, the very real listing, had not nearly the same impact on the rear as it might have on the OP's.

 

[BadAss4Bangers]

I went and bought a front and rear camber kit from extremepsi, Once they arive I will install them and take it back to town fair and see how it goes then. If they still can't fix anything then I will ask for my refund and take it to a performance shop. Thanks for all the help guys, I will keep you posted.

 

[jtmcinder]

Did you see my last post? Measure the wheel gaps, to see if the car is listing to one side. If a half-degree of camber were "moved" from the right to the left, then it would be pretty close to optimal for a street-driven car and no camber kit would be needed (or wanted) at either end.

Camber kits are for adding or subtracting camber from both sides at once. I would not slap a band-aid ... er, camber kit ... on a car with camber that mismatched by a whole degree. I'd find out why that was true in the first place.

 

[BadAss4Bangers]

Did you see my last post? Measure the wheel gaps, to see if the car is listing to one side. If a half-degree of camber were "moved" from the right to the left, then it would be pretty close to optimal for a street-driven car and no camber kit would be needed (or wanted) at either end.

Camber kits are for adding or subtracting camber from both sides at once. I would not slap a band-aid ... er, camber kit ... on a car with camber that mismatched by a whole degree. I'd find out why that was true in the first place.

Sorry I kind of skimmed through the posts and didn't catch that. I see what your saying, and it would make perfect sense if one coilover is lowered more than the other. Once I get home tonight I will take out my tape measure and check it out, thanks.

I will also take my wheels off to see if there are any existing camber kits installed on the car now that I know what they look like.

On the front left knuckle (looks like where the knuckle attaches to the frame?), I remember the guy saying that the bolt was seized. What exactly can they adjust from the knuckle?

EDIT: JTM, I think your on to something. I checked my wheel gap today before leaving to work and the passenger side front is .5" higher than the drivers side. I believe that should explain why everything is off 1.0 degree. I'd assume that lowering the right side .5" would lower that camber a whole degree. Am I right? I could also raise the drivers side (which I probably will do) and have the same affect. I will also double check the rear suspension since I did not measure that yet.

Once I get home tonight I will try to get in the garage and fix this to see if it makes a difference.