Anyone run TCE BSL/1.10" brake kits on a 1G?

[Ludachris]

If so, with what wheels? I'm trying to find out all of my options for a lightweight wheel. The wheels I have now won't work with this setup.

I'd like to go with the BSL 6-piston, 1.10" rotor, .800" pads. I know clearance will be a big issue though. If I could go out and measure each wheel I'm interested in, I would, but that's not a realistic possibility. Most shops around here won't carry every wheel, and there won't be any online shops willing to do the measurements for me. So all I can really do here is ask here if anyone has used this kit and find out what wheels they used with it.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I found this a while back when researching the tce kits
http://www.jakelatham.com/1gDSM/projects/tce_brakes/

 

[mavisky]

If so, with what wheels? I'm trying to find out all of my options for a lightweight wheel. The wheels I have now won't work with this setup.

I'd like to go with the BSL 6-piston, 1.10" rotor, .800" pads. I know clearance will be a big issue though. If I could go out and measure each wheel I'm interested in, I would, but that's not a realistic possibility. Most shops around here won't carry every wheel, and there won't be any online shops willing to do the measurements for me. So all I can really do here is ask here if anyone has used this kit and find out what wheels they used with it.

Any reason you can't use the 6N caliper instead?

 

[Ludachris]

I can, I just would rather find a wheel that will fit so I don't have to. I'd rather not use the thinner pads.

 

[mavisky]

For a cheaper lightweight wheel I never found one that gave you a better bang for your buck than the Kosei K1-TS.

 

[Ludachris]

I actually have a set of K1's - 17x7.5 with a 45mm offset. However, if my measurements are right, they won't work with the brakes I mentioned above. The TCE site states I need 1.53" of space for the caliper to clear. I only have 1.25". I guess I can still go with the BSL6 and the .81" rotors and keep the K1's.

For those who don't know, that measurement is taken by placing a straight edge on the back of the hub surface of the wheel and measuring 7" out from the center-most point. At the 7" mark, you measure the distance from the wheel spoke to the straight edge.

 

[mavisky]

I'd think that with proper ducting the .81's would work ok. In the end I suppose it comes down to running the bsl6 and .81 calipers and possibly replacing, or running the bsl6n and the 1.03's and replacing pads more often. Short of a big wheel like Greg's 9"ers or so, I think you're stuck with making a sacrifice in one area or another.

 

[Ludachris]

I wish we could come up with a list of wheels that are Stoptech/TCE/Baer friendly. I found some stuff here and there, but it sure would be nice to have a compiled list.

 

[99gst_racer]

I actually have a set of K1's - 17x7.5 with a 45mm offset. However, if my measurements are right, they won't work with the brakes I mentioned above. The TCE site states I need 1.53" of space for the caliper to clear. I only have 1.25". I guess I can still go with the BSL6 and the .81" rotors and keep the K1's.

Chris, you could try using 1/4" wheel spacers. Dan (project_tsi) has to use 1/2" spacers at the track to get his 15" wheels and slicks to clear his calipers. He hasnt had any problems with the spacers at all. Just a thought.

 

[Ludachris]

Chris, you could try using 1/4" wheel spacers. Dan (project_tsi) has to use 1/2" spacers at the track to get his 15" wheels and slicks to clear his calipers. He hasnt had any problems with the spacers at all. Just a thought.

I just never felt very comfortable with the idea of using spacers at the track, or for daily driving. If it was just drag racing I probably wouldn't care as much. I have thought about it though.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

just fyi...i read on e46fanatics that they are discontinuing the k1 wheel. i went on to kosei's website and the design has been removed from their product list as well

 

[Ludachris]

Okay guys, here's what I'm thinking for track wheels/tires:

17x8 K1-TS (what offset?)
225/45/17 Kuhmo Victoracer V700 (can I go 245/45/17?)
TCE BSL6 kit with the .81" width rotors

If I can go with 245 width tires, I'd rather get the V710's but they're more for AutoX. I'm not sure how they'd do on a road course. I'll be doing mostly AutoX and some road course.

 

[mavisky]

Chris that's almost the exact setup I'd decided on for my car. I was just planning on calling tire-rack for the K1-TS's though on fitment as I've got a wholesale account through them at the dealership. They're often pretty conservative on their settings though.

I know this isn't what you're getting, but its an idea of an overly extreme setup that Dennis Grant runs on his 97. Somewhere between here and stock is where you'd want to end up of course.

WHEELS
Type............................Volk TE-37 forged aluminum
Size............................17" X 9.5" +12mm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TIRES
Type............................Hoosier A3S03 autocross compound
Size............................275 40R17

 

[mavisky]

As far as the tires go the 205/55-16 has an outer diameter of 22.8 according to Khumo's passenger line, the 225/50-16 that many people upgrade to is a 24.9 and the 245/45-17 is a 26" tire. Even the 225/45-17 is a 24.9" tire. It's a damn shame 16's won't clear those brakes because a 245/45-16 would be 24.9" as well.

You'll obviously lose a little bit of torque to the wheels by going with the bigger 26" tire but you'd also pick up a little more speed in each gear. Either way I'd look to go with the Khumo V700's or spend some more cash and get the TOYO RA-1's.

 

[jtmcinder]

The V70A (aka the Ecsta) comes in 245/40/17, which is the same diameter as the popular 245/45/16 V700 (Victoracer). That gets you up to a 17" rim.

As you seem to know, Victoracers don't come in 245/40/17.

I would not get 245 V710s for road racing a DSM. It's just too much car for that amount of tire and they will not last long.

As to specific wheel designs/offset to fit your brakes, I'm sorry I can't help.

- Jtoby

 

[jtmcinder]

With regard to 275/40/17 (DG's old setup): too big in diameter. Much better would be the setup used by Charles Moss: 285/30/18. This is the same diameter as 245/45/16 and 245/40/17. Plus, it puts you on 18s, which would help with the brakes (including both fitment and cooling).

- Jtoby

 

[mavisky]

With regard to 275/40/17 (DG's old setup): too big in diameter. Much better would be the setup used by Charles Moss: 285/30/18. This is the same diameter as 245/45/16 and 245/40/17. Plus, it puts you on 18s, which would help with the brakes (including both fitment and cooling).

- Jtoby

Very true, I was using it more as a quote for backspacing as I've not seen Charles ever list his wheel tire combo, then again I think Luda wants to keep his tires under his car and not outside of them. 285's are a serious tire for a dsm. WTF

 

[jtmcinder]

Then I'd say 245/40/17 on 17x8.5s with an offset around +35. I leave it to you (sorry) to figure out which wheels of this size won't hit the brakes. I've seen big brakes inside SSR Competitions on cars like Scoobies (which are also struts in the front), but this is too close to decide on vague, second-hand evidence. I would not get 17x7.5s, however, as that is not enough width for 245s. So, as much as I love Koseis, those are out; they don't make a 17x8.5.

If you are close to Boulder, there are lots of autocrossers there. A post on SCCAForums might locate a person with exactly this set-up for a test-fit.

- Jtoby

ps. IIRC, Charles has 18x10s with a +12 offset, but that's a 2G. And they definitely stick out.

 

[mavisky]

I list the K1-TS at 17x7,8,9 in my book here. 17x8 should be close enough or you could go overkill with the 9's. Assuming of course that they make that width with an offset that suits you.

I still also list the K1 Racing in a 17x8.5 for the same price as the 17x7 K1-TS.

 

[jtmcinder]

But can you actually get them in 5x114 and the correct offset? I believe they have been discontinued.

- Jtoby

ps. the TS is cool if you have a source for dried air

 

[mavisky]

I'd have to call to find out whether I can do the right offset and lug pattern.

 

[mavisky]

According to Kosei's Japan site the K1-TS is available in both 8 and 9 inch in both 35 and 45 offsets with the 5x114.3 hole spacing.

http://www.koseijp.co.jp/engfl/n_p5_k1.htm

 

[Rx3]

Chris most brake companies should have a template that you can download and print out. You might be able to email this to some of the vendors you are going through and maybe that will help a bit with testing wheels for fitment over brakes. I agree with Jtoby, 18s may be the way to go just so you have "extra space" in the bank. What is your budget for wheels? SSR Comps are always a good value, and they are widely used. Many of the teams running SCCA World Speed Challenge (the Touring Cars) use these wheels. My 17x8s are ~14 lbs. The only wheel that may be lighter is the Racing Hart CP-035R, or maybe one of the Enkeis, and they are a bit more $$$. You may also want to look into getting a set of custom wheels made. Now I've never delved too far into that realm, but if you have the $$$, Talking to Fikse or CCW or one of the other companies that specialise in wheels for racing teams may be able to give you some more options.


I would stay away from spacers if you can, but if you do go that route, make sure you get the longer studs. I actually did some digging on studs and found a place that was very good, I'll have to see if I can remember.

V710s are really soft, they aren't going to last long on extended track sessions. They are also very unforgiving. You can flatspot these things easily if you don't know what you are doing. I would look for a slighty harder compound. Are you going to be doing actual wheel to wheel stuff or just track days? That info would help in choosing a tire. If it's just a track day thing, you may be better off going with a Toyo or something with a harder compound so they last a few extra sessions.

 

[mavisky]

All very good points, if nothing else chris I'm sure you could get the dimensions of the caliper and rotor and create a template of your own that would be very close to the actual kit. After all the rotor will be so thick out from the wheel and then the caliper will be centered on the rotor.

 

[Todd TCE]

The problem guys is that the 1G does not offer near the required clearance from the rotor back side to the ball joint. Nobody can place the entire kit 'inboard' any more now than they do.

The debate fo .81 to 1.10 or even 1.25 has to do with thermal mass only. A wider rotor will do nothing for your brakes unless they run very hot. I'm talking open track use. On the 1G we have to balance rotor mass to wheel fit. It's really just that simple. You want more mass? Get more wheel.

I'd love to have cut out templates for all the kits but sadly cost and caliper/rotor combos make it inpractical. You'll have to settle for the wheel fit chart where I can do the computations quickly by plugging in the rotor of choice on what rotor of choice....If someone wants to produce drawings of all these in pdf form I might consider it. I know I don't!