A buddy of mine owns a performance shop and he just made his first set of tubular control arms for the 1G. These are made of chrome moly tubing and include new balljoints and poly urethane bushings. He eventually plans to offer a design for the autocross/road race guys, and then a lighter version for the drag race guys.
I'm basically posting this to get some feedback to pass along to him. Tell me what you think about them. If you see room for improvement, then please share.
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-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
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The welds don't look very good. Very porous. Pretty obviously MIG.
Chrome Moly rollcages are required to be TIG welded to pass safety inspections at NHRA events. I assume that the same requirement would be in place for suspension components. But this is the prototype, so I won't pass ultimate judgement.
I like it. Is it the same length as stock? How does the ball joint angle look when the wheel is mounted and there is vehicle weight on it? I'm assuming he used a press in joint for space reasons, or was it just easier? Will there be provisions to use the sway bar?
Sick. Do you know about how much they would be and when they would be available?
I'd rather not discuss pricing in this thread. He's currently working on becoming a supporting vendor here. When the time comes, he will post options and pricing in the Vendor Announcements Forum.
But does anyone know how much Polk sold theirs for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1992awdlaser
If I didn't know how to weld, I would buy a set from him. Any weight savings numbers?
I think they look plenty strong for autocross.
The one pictures is the heavier Autocross control arm. They save 3lbs per corner. The drag race version will save a bit more weight than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpestilence
The welds don't look very good. Very porous. Pretty obviously MIG.
Chrome Moly rollcages are required to be TIG welded to pass safety inspections at NHRA events. I assume that the same requirement would be in place for suspension components. But this is the prototype, so I won't pass ultimate judgement.
They are TIG welds. Their torch and helmet failed just after they started welding this one. He just picked up replacements today, so the next set will look much better.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
I've been offering these guys my own feedback to help them develop a good race version for road racing and autox. Can't wait to get them onboard as a supporting vendor.
____________________________
-Chris
FP3150-powered road racer!
Please use the "Site Problems" forum or the "Tech" forums instead of sending "help" questions directly to me or the Moderators/Wisemen.
[QUOTE=bpestilence;151749009]The welds don't look very good. Very porous. Pretty obviously MIG.
QUOTE]
If you look closley they are Tig welded, but poor at best. Tig welding is basically trial and error. The more practice you get the better you are obviously..
It's hard to see but If you look you can see how the weld kind of makes a dime shape, That's a Tig weld..It comes from dipping your filler rod in your puddle of weld..
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92 6/4 Auto EVO 3 16G
My Turbo Is My Radio
Less weight. He should be able to incorporate an adjustment for caster/camber also.
There are no adjustments in the pic so I ruled that out as a benefit. WOW spend $300 to save 2lbs so worth it plus I increse the possibility of breaking a weld under hard cornering. Waste of time just as I figured. How about some forged aluminum ones, now that would be worth it.
There are no adjustments in the pic so I ruled that out as a benefit. WOW spend $300 to save 2lbs so worth it plus I increse the possibility of breaking a weld under hard cornering. Waste of time just as I figured. How about some forged aluminum ones, now that would be worth it.
Later Dr Turbo
Like I said, he should be able to incorporate them. Who even posted a price? And if you read the posts Paul said each one of these is 3lbs lighter(6lb for the pair). This is the heavy version for autocross. A drag version will be lighter.These will also all be stiffer than stock. There is no worry about breaking a weld with somebody that knows how to weld, these will be stronger than stock.
If you don't want them, there is no reason to post as it will just be a "waste of time."
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Pat...AKA Project Pat
If this setup improved either traction or rigidity and saved 2 pounds per side I would pick them up for sure. This is not for the average tuner that just wants some shiny cool piece on their car. Most people don't need anything like this but if your serious about going fast 2 pounds per side and helping with either traction or overall rigidity makes them a good buy.
Here's another picture that shows how the larger bushing attaches:
Ahh. I was wondering about that as well. I think my first post may have been skipped over. I posted it at almost the same time as your reply to some of the other questions.
For the street guys, there isn't much benefit. It's the racers that will see some benefits. Lighter weight, more rigid, more room for brake ducting, possibility of using aftermarket ball joints for roll center adjustment, possibility of using solid bushings, etc. Weight isn't the only benefit here. The photos don't show many of these options, but I've given my feedback. We'll see where they go with it.
____________________________
-Chris
FP3150-powered road racer!
Please use the "Site Problems" forum or the "Tech" forums instead of sending "help" questions directly to me or the Moderators/Wisemen.
Like I said, he should be able to incorporate them. Who even posted a price? And if you read the posts Paul said each one of these is 3lbs lighter(6lb for the pair). This is the heavy version for autocross. A drag version will be lighter.These will also all be stiffer than stock. There is no worry about breaking a weld with somebody that knows how to weld, these will be stronger than stock.
If you don't want them, there is no reason to post as it will just be a "waste of time."
I guessed on the price, they won't be cheap $300 is a min.
'Don't have to worry about a weld breaking"! HA, you must be new to cars, welds can ALWAYS break and often times DO, like exhaust, manifolds, FMIC, tubulard K members, shifter, seats, etc etc that satement should be moved to the "stupidest things you ever heard a dsmer make" thread. My own personal rule of thumb for buying a part to save weight is $10/lb, if I was rich I am sure that would move up. I just think this is a useless mod, sorry.
I guessed on the price, they won't be cheap $300 is a min.
'Don't have to worry about a weld breaking"! HA, you must be new to cars, welds can ALWAYS break and often times DO, like exhaust, manifolds, FMIC, tubulard K members, shifter, seats, etc etc that satement should be moved to the "stupidest things you ever heard a dsmer make" thread. My own personal rule of thumb for buying a part to save weight is $10/lb, if I was rich I am sure that would move up. I just think this is a useless mod, sorry.
Later Dr Turbo
Your response is unsubstantiated. Anything "can always break" (as you put it) under the right conditions, this statement means nothing without context. The post you've responded to was assuming proper welding technique, thus he is correct, and you are incorrect. Just a quick FYI, the weld (proper of course) is often stronger than the materials it has joined. If anything, the metal surrounding the weld becomes the weak spot because of fatigue from the weld occurring right next to it. We'll call this the HAZ for short. (this is just an extremely abbreviated tidbit, and can vary greatly with different types of metals. Please do your own research.)
To pass the test on weld strength, I welded two pieces of metal together in a "V prep-joint" fashion in various positions, such as overhead. Then your precious piece is placed in the "death crusher" and subjected to 25 tons of force. The welded piece is placed in the machine which has a "U" in the metal where it rests. Then, the compressing arm (shaped like a regular press) presses down on it to bend it into a giant "U." This places all of the force on your weld. Further, the arm bends the piece right where you welded it. This tests its strength.
The piece is then removed and inspected. If it does not still look like one solid piece of metal, you grin and start over. To pass the class, you must pass this test. This was simply a basic welding class. I'm no certified welder, and I'll never sell fabricated parts, but I have the utmost respect for those who take on these types of projects. At the very least, if you cannot show the respect that custom fabricators (who are building parts for OUR cars) deserve, please refrain from posting the negative comments. Thank you.
I guessed on the price, they won't be cheap $300 is a min.
'Don't have to worry about a weld breaking"! HA, you must be new to cars, welds can ALWAYS break and often times DO, like exhaust, manifolds, FMIC, tubulard K members, shifter, seats, etc etc that satement should be moved to the "stupidest things you ever heard a dsmer make" thread. My own personal rule of thumb for buying a part to save weight is $10/lb, if I was rich I am sure that would move up. I just think this is a useless mod, sorry.
Later Dr Turbo
If you think it is useless than don't post.
Yeah, I'm new to cars. Like I said, If you have a good welder(person) you don't need to worry about the weld breaking, if you did the government wouldn't let the factory use all the welds they do. Go find me a Shearer manifold that has cracked or a JMF intake. With a good welder, most of the time the weld will be stronger than the material it was used on.
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Pat...AKA Project Pat
I see it both ways but I think the correct way to spell it is chromoly not chrome moly.
On top of that this is not a complex piece and I don't see how the design is poor. I am no suspension master but I can tell by comparing that to a stock lower control arm it is more then strong enough to handle what most of us will throw at it.
Do you really need to ask that ???. We will start with the welds k not much to say here I think obvious. The whole thread in bolt thingy. Do you really think that that looks like the proper way of doing this. Even if using good hardware grade 10 lets say look at the rest of it. In a 2800lb car that makes turns and hit bumps I would not put my loved ones near that thing. When taking others safety into ones hands they need to be professional. Cause someone bought a welder doesn’t give them the right to profit from shady work. It take years of R@D. trust me I have made things years ago that I would not sale to the general public. Its being professional.
I new my work years ago was shady. I now have enough experience to make fabricated parts available to the public. don’t worry stay tuned for some dsm/evo stuff.
Best advice not to be a d%^& is practice makes perfect. I due give him credit for trying. We all start some were. But don’t talk about selling this crap to the public. Practice makes perfect.
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92awdlaser 9.20@158mph sold
2005 evo 8 monster
I agree about the threaded part I'm not a big fan as that looks like the part that would be taking the blunt forcer but if you change how it connects to the arm I see no probelm with the arm itself.
I guessed on the price, they won't be cheap $300 is a min.
'Don't have to worry about a weld breaking"! HA, you must be new to cars, welds can ALWAYS break and often times DO, like exhaust, manifolds, FMIC, tubulard K members, shifter, seats, etc etc that satement should be moved to the "stupidest things you ever heard a dsmer make" thread. My own personal rule of thumb for buying a part to save weight is $10/lb, if I was rich I am sure that would move up. I just think this is a useless mod, sorry.
Later Dr Turbo
You = ignorant. Anyone who understands welding and welds, knows that a proper weld will not break. The weld should always be stronger than the base material (proper filler metal selection) and most failures will be right outside of the weld zone. Having someone who can do aerospace or code quality work do these would be ideal to make sure that there is full penetration through out the whole weld.
Paul, I am going to have to agree about the threaded part. The amount of force placed right on that point can be very great especially in a street application or autox. Living in Michigan, visualize the largest pot hole that you can and think about what that would have to hold. Or when someone slams there car into a corner while the weight is all shifted to the front. I don't doubt that it would hold for a while, but in a situation like this, it seems that you would want to make this as strong as possible, even if it sacrifices some weight savings. I guess the best thing to do there is figure out the shear strength of the bolts and maybe build a set of those to test for failures.
plus I increse the possibility of breaking a weld under hard cornering. Waste of time just as I figured. How about some forged aluminum ones, now that would be worth it.
and subjected to 25 tons of force. The welded piece is placed in the machine which has a "U" in the metal where it rests. Then, the compressing arm (shaped like a regular press) presses down on it to bend it into a giant "U." This places all of the force on your weld. Further, the arm bends the piece right where you welded it. This tests its strength. 
tell your friend to sell his welder. I don’t want to read about some pore guy/girl losing there life on the highway due to a very pore design failing.
