F.I.C. 1150's with a 4294?

[domthebomb11208]

My buddies about to purchase a gt4294 from garrett. Is 1150 injectors with a 2g mass and dsm link enough to tune it? Are the injector dutys going to be 110%? What do you guys think?

 

[brute]

What other mods does he have?

 

[99gst_racer]

Well, what fuel is he going to run?



No offense, but this is a pretty crappy question. You are leaving out way too much info that would relate to injector duty cycles. And why would he run a 42R with a tiny 2G MAS?

In a nutshell, NO, he's not going to even begin to stretch the legs of a 42R with those parts that you posted.

 

[biglady112]

Remember Paul, you can ignore the mas signal and use Fake MAF or Use MAP. But the 2G mas would be an airflow restriction at this level. I do agree.

Steven

 

[1992awdlaser]

What kind of fuelp pump setup does the car have? Will it be ran on race gas or e-85? What kind of fuel feed line does it have? How much boost does he plan on running?

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

Even on race gas those injectors will not flow enough to provide sufficient fuel to that turbo. At 34psi on my tiny FP3052 I am already seeing about 85% IDC on 950's.

 

[97eclipseNT]

I'm not thinking those will be enough if you want to get even close to the potential of that turbo. Most people with a setup like this have an aem setup for speed density and dual fuel rails with usually 1600cc primaries.

 

[twicks69]

First off, if you are running a 42R, you better be looking at doing AEM EMS or another standalone with a 5-bar MAP sensor and AIT sensor. The 42R has a 5" inlet; a 2G MAF is extremely restrictive on anything larger than a 60-trim.

As well, you better damn well be running dual walboro 255HP pumps or larger with -6 or -8AN fuel feed line, and 1600cc injectors to actually use the 42R to its potential.

If you really want help, you will need to give us a heck of alot more information pertaining to your "buddy"'s car. A complete build list would be a good start; along with goals, and the vehicle information it is on.

A 4294R makes solid power up to 52-55psi. You WILL need 90-95psi of fuel pressure, and a motor that can handle over 1000HP.

 

[GVR4592]

Unmodified Walbro in-tank pumps won't do 90-95 psi. They have a pressure relief valve that opens at 85 psi. The external pumps either have a much higher relief pressure or they don't have a relief valve at all.

 

[twicks69]

Unmodified Walbro in-tank pumps won't do 90-95 psi. They have a pressure relief valve that opens at 85 psi. The external pumps either have a much higher relief pressure or they don't have a relief valve at all.

Correct; I mistyped -- 1 in-line and 1-in-tank. The bosch 044 is also an excellent alternative (1-in-tank and 1-in-line) for high pressure applications.

I am currently running 49psi of boost with a 43psi base fpr on my walboro 255HP in-tank/in-line dual setup without problems.



Either way, I am thinking that this information is a little above the OP's question as they are trying to potentially run a severely under-engineered setup. We need a heck of alot more information before we go into fuel pump setups for high boost applications.

 

[domthebomb11208]

sorry about that i was in a rush a work he mods are:
built 2.0 eagle/wisco setup
o ringed 280 cam head
dsm link
1150 injectors
2g mass
jm drag intake manifold
75mm throttle body
afpr
sumped stock tank
a1000 fuel pump
8an feed and 6an return
built shep stage 4 trans with drive shaft axles

Also the car with always see vp c16 race fuel
how easy are the 1600's to tune with a dsm link?

 

[twicks69]

That will be a decent setup -- EXCEPT for the 1150's and the DSMLink (IMO).

I would really reccomend either adding another fuel rail and some 580cc or larger injectors, or stepping up to 1600cc injectors. As well, the MAF is a major restriction; pull it and do 5-bar MAP sensor with AIT sensor and AEM EMS. There is a heck of alot more tuneability going this route.

With the 1150's and the A1000 on an AEM, you will be likely maxing out the injectors around 35-40psi. You can get a little more out of them by raising the fuel pressure up to around 45-50psi -- A1000's don't like higher than 90psi line pressures that much. If you want, you can go around this by installing an in-line Bosch 044 pump with -8AN fittings by the firewall. The in-line pump will effectively increase the efficiency of the A1000 at high pressures because the 044 will be taking more of the load. Once you start going above 40psi toward 50-55psi, this would be an ideal way to do so with a set of 1600cc injectors.

 

[domthebomb11208]

the problem is dsmlink is so easy to tune with. me and my buddy downloaded the aem problem and we were lost. All those tables and stuff. Dsmlink we kinda got down. Thats the only reason we wanted to stay dsm link. But it looks like we're gonna have to learn. Yea and 1600's are starting to look better and better now

 

[twicks69]

Well, if you are going to try DSMLink with 1600's, then be sure to have a functional/calibrated wideband O2 setup, and use a global correction dead time of -63.44 for the 1600cc's.

Here is an excellent thread posting up deadtimes and dutycycles, etc. for a long list of injectors using E85 -- http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/253452-e85-injector-max-lb-min-calculations.html

 

[domthebomb11208]

thanks..what do u think we should do with the mass air if we keep dsmlink? i was thinking gm mass with a translater. Will we max out the gm mass too?...also dont u mean i would set my global at -63.44 what would i set my deadtime at on f.i.c.1600's??

 

[twicks69]

thanks..what do u think we should do with the mass air if we keep dsmlink? i was thinking gm mass with a translater. Will we max out the gm mass too?...also dont u mean i would set my global at -63.44 what would i set my deadtime at on f.i.c.1600's??

GM 3" or 3.5" with MAFT Pro -- But I am strongly telling you to change over to MAP-sensor -- it is MUCH less restrictive. I do not know if you will max out a GM MAF.

Yes, the Global will be -63.44. The deadtime will need to be based off of user input once the car is running. I would suggest going to the DSMLink Forums for help with this.

 

[domthebomb11208]

what do u mean map? a map sensor? if so how do i do that with dsmlink? i thought u couldnt go speed density

 

[biglady112]

Wow, no faith in dsmlink. There is a fella doing as much as you are that basically just started and did an initial tune over on the dsmlink forums. Don't discount it yet. There is also a group of guys running 8 injectors and methonal running 8.65@186 and 8.71@171 running dsmlink. It is not as lame as all the AEM guys think it is. And I have a 2G that uses AEM. Been a part of that project for five years now.

Mirage Turbo/Colt GT :: View topic - Latest 1G AWD project

 

[1992awdlaser]

There are multiple guys on Dsmlink forum running 42r's without a problem. Dsmlink can control 1600cc injectors just fine also. I agree that the a1000 won't be a good choice by itself. I would put a 3.5 gm maf on it and a map sensor. Then you can log you actual boost. And if you start to over run the gm maf you can use the fake maf and use map function together to tune it. Then it will ignore the gm maf at whatever switchover point you select(you would select an rpm right before the maf get over run).

 

[domthebomb11208]

There are multiple guys on Dsmlink forum running 42r's without a problem. Dsmlink can control 1600cc injectors just fine also. I agree that the a1000 won't be a good choice by itself. I would put a 3.5 gm maf on it and a map sensor. Then you can log you actual boost. And if you start to over run the gm maf you can use the fake maf and use map function together to tune it. Then it will ignore the gm maf at whatever switchover point you select(you would select an rpm right before the maf get over run).

which translator should i go with that'll work with dsmlink?

 

[90laserRSfwd]

How much power are you trying to make (on c16 I assume from your post).

 

[1992awdlaser]

which translator should i go with that'll work with dsmlink?

Just a regular $195 translator.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

1150s at 43 psi, race gas with a SG of .72 and a target AFR of 11.5:1 will support airflow in the low 80s. The 4294 is a ~85 lb turbo. I wouldn't recomend cutting it that close. 4 1600s under the same conditions will support ~115 lbs/min by comparison. The trade off now is between idle and driveability and maximum capacity. Hopefully at this level though you guys are onlu concerned about driveability to get around the pits. If you don't plan to max out the 4294 for a while you can run the 1150s while you get used to tuning a setup of this size, but if boost ever gets away from you (all it takes is a melted BC line) you have very little headroom. That's your call.

1600s are a better choice IMO. This is what I run with my 4294, and an A1000. I would feel much better with a mechanical pump at this level, but I'm still working up the motivation to install one. An A1000 at 35 psi drops to 81 lbs/min with the same conditions as above, not gonna cut it.

 

[domthebomb11208]

yea i'm gonna try out the 1600's on the dsmlink with a 3.5" gm mass air meter. Car is registered and insured. But is barely driven. C16 is expensive. The car is mostly trailer to where it's gonna race at. What fuel pump is better than a a1000 that is still electric?

 

[1992awdlaser]

Walbro 255 in tank with a Bosch 044 in line.