Autometer Wideband

[Eclipse99GST]

Don't know if this was brought up before but just wanted to put this out for everyone. Finally, made the wideband for those "light show" autometer gauges. Might be a cheap alternative for people who already have the gauge.

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=151

Erik

 

[Omega]

That isn't an Autometer wideband, it's made by innovate motorsports. They have always had the analog out put, but are now offering simple alternatives.


http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

 

[Eclipse99GST]

I'm sorry. I know what you mean.

But like you said, it is an alternative if some people already have that gauge

 

[99gst_racer]

Even if it is possible to hook the blinky Autometer gauge up to an Innovate wideband, it's not all that great. The Autometer gauges don't display your actual AFR like the pic shows - it's very misleading.

Basically, after it's all hooked up, all you would have it a more accurate "blinky light show" gauge. You still wouldn't have an actual lambda voltage reading nor would you have an AFR, so you still wouldn't be able to tune with it.

But like it was mentioned above, Innovate does offer a gauge that displays your actual AFR and/or lambda readout and not just a light show.


On a side note: I'm currently using that LC-1 wideband and I have it wired to my ECU. I can datalog my lambda voltage and then convert it to an AFR. That is the best/cheapest way IMO; much better than a blinking gauge.

 

[Omega]

It's not misleading at all. The LC-1 and the LM-1 have an output of .5 to 1.5V (or whatever it is). The Gauge is set from the factory to be that range too (in my example 1.0V is 14.7 AFR). Therefore the gauge is now accurately able to show AFR. That was the whole point of this kit. With the LM-1, all you need to know is the 14.7 AFR voltage and you program the LM-1 to output the required voltage.

The other kit you are talking about is the gauge AND electronics rolled into one. All you do is power it, mount the sensor and gauge and you are done.

You are doing something similar when the ECU is tied in. I think that the LM-1 has dual analog outputs so you too can turn the blinky gauge into the real thing for real time tuning and visual knowledge of your AFR.

 

[99gst_racer]

It's not misleading at all.

Have you ever seen one of the Autometer blinky AFR gauges before - in person?? It does not have the little digital screen that displays numbers, like what they show on that link. That's why I'm saying it's misleading. They make you think an Autometer gauge will display your accurate Air to fuel ratio in a numerical value. It does not and cannot.

The LC-1 and the LM-1 have an output of .5 to 1.5V (or whatever it is). The Gauge is set from the factory to be that range too (in my example 1.0V is 14.7 AFR). Therefore the gauge is now accurately able to show AFR. That was the whole point of this kit. With the LM-1, all you need to know is the 14.7 AFR voltage and you program the LM-1 to output the required voltage.

Yes, I understand how it all works. My question is, if using the LC-1 with an Autometer gauge (which only has blinky LED lights), how do you know your AFR? You dont. The Autometer gauges dont have the little digital read out like the gauges that come from Innovate. And you can't accurately tune off of blinking LED lights, no matter how accurate they are.

You are doing something similar when the ECU is tied in. I think that the LM-1 has dual analog outputs so you too can turn the blinky gauge into the real thing for real time tuning and visual knowledge of your AFR.

It's not the real thing with a gauge that has only blinky lights. You dont get any numbers from them. Only a more accurate "blink" which is useless for tuning.

 

[SethA]

What would make this clearer is using the terms "precise" and "accurate". Accuracy is whether or not the gage is reading the correct value, precision is whether or not the scale on the gage is fine enough to discern what value it is showing.

I believe what 99 is saying that although the autometer may be accurate, it is not precise enough.

Seth

 

[99gst_racer]

Yeah, it's difficult to correctly 'word' what I'm trying to explain. Here's an example:

Below is a pic of what you would see if you hooked an Innovate wideband LC-1 up to an Autometer gauge. Now tell me- What is your current air-to-fuel ratio?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This is my point. No matter if the Autometer gauge is getting it's input from a narrowband or from a wideband, it is not capable of displaying any real, usable data.

 

[Phatblackhatch]

You guys checked into this. It looks to do both the flashy light show and give actual numbers. The base model, to me seems to be the best route, but thats my $.02

http://www.plxdevices.com/

check it, let me know what u think

 

[99gst_racer]

You guys checked into this. It looks to do both the flashy light show and give actual numbers. The base model, to me seems to be the best route, but thats my $.02

http://www.plxdevices.com/

check it, let me know what u think

Yes, the gauges offered by PLX and Innovate have the blinky lights and a digital, numerical readout. And those are good gauges to use. But the Autometer gauges only have the blinky lights - no numbers..... That's why the Autometer gauges are worthless to tune with.

The only downside to the PLX and innovate gauges is that they are very expensive.

 

[TurboB5]

Im running the AEM UEGO and have absolutely nothing but good things to say about it!

 

[Omega]

This gif shows the exact blink to AFR correlation. To be dead nuts on, yes numbers are what you want, but to get in the ballpark, these gauges will be fine.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[99gst_racer]

Im running the AEM UEGO and have absolutely nothing but good things to say about it!

Not trying to be a d!ck or anything, but that post had absolutely nothing to due with the specific topic at hand.

 

[99gst_racer]

This gif shows the exact blink to AFR correlation. To be dead nuts on, yes numbers are what you want, but to get in the ballpark, these gauges will be fine.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Yes, that is my point exactly. They are only good for a "ballpark" AFR, which is not good enough to tune froml; especially when you can only see it in increments of .5. I can read mine in increments of .02 and I can datalog those increments to compare them with RPM, airflow, timing, etc......

 

[Omega]

I think we are splitting hairs here. If the Autometer gauge is anywhere in the rich range, you are pretty safe. That would be 10X the better tune that 90% of the cars on this board. To maximize its capabilities you would connect a voltmeter or just run that all the time.. your choice. I am just saying that adding an LM-1 type unit makes the shit autometer at least usefull... far more than it was alone, out of the box. Once you have everything set up, and you know what's going on, you could always switch to the Innovate or PLX gauge.

BTW, your image shows an AFR of 16.0:1

 

[daren_p]

I think you are both sorta right here. When you hook up your wideband to the autometer air/fuel "blinky light" gauge, yes it is as accurate as a digital display or a datalog but it won't give you the same resolution. I believe they have 20 leds and each one would represent .5 air/fuel ratio starting at 10 and obviously going to 20. So the accuracy is there its just there are not enough leds to give you the same resolution as a datalog or a digital display. It would still be 100 times better then using the gauge as just a narrowband display, I myself use/agree the digital display & data logging method is alot better/easier to check.

 

[Maglin]

OK let me point out some facts for you all about this whole topic and getting precise results. The Stock 1G and 2G ECU's have 5v O2 inputs. OK now we have a datalogger that shows us our O2 in volts. You can set up the LC-1 to whatever you want for 0-5 volts. I think I have mine set to like 7-22 AFR or something like that. You just use a 2 way toggle with a common out and hook the WB into one side and the Cars NB into the other. Then you use the common output and tie that into the Computers O2 sensor. For a 2G you can just cut the rear O2 wire and splice it into their and log the rear O2. Your not going to run closed loop when you are going WOT. Right before your pull you just switch to the WB and log your pull. When done go back to the NB so as to not mess up your trims by the computer thinkings it's hella rich. Now when you download the log onto the computer you can just make a nice nifty conversion formula and see your AFR.

That is the cheapest way to go. No Gage or anything to have to dispute. It's very accurate and you also can now log O2 with RPMs which is very important for tuning purposes.

I have the LC-1/XD-1 combo. The XD-1 Gage is super sweet and very accurate. It's digital so you still have 2 analog outputs to play with. I have one going to the ECU and changed the code to use a 0-5v signal for the Car all the time. Now I have far more stable AFR's in closed loop. Basically I just converted the ECU from NB to WB. You could also use the WB in NB simulation but 0-1v isn't very precise now is it. But it would still work. I was simulating the NB for about a week and was seeing a 3 AFR swing in closed loop. Now I see a .5 AFR swing since going full WB for the ECU. I can always see my AFR by looking at the Gage. And when I log I have the voltage in 0-5v readout and can easily convert it to AFR to tuning purposes.

And to close in case anyone is going to say this. You would rather use Lambda over AFR as it's always right no matter what fuel you are using. 1 Lambda is always Stioch. We would want to tune for around .80-.82 lambda. If you was running straight meth that would be like 1.7ish:1 AFR. With gas it's like 11.2-11.7ish:1 AFR. Still both would read .80-.82 lambda. If you are running e10 fuel. (that is ethanol added by 10%) Then your Stioch is no longer 14.7:1. It's now 14.3:1. So your tuning with AFR. You are tuned to the edge running say 11.8:1 on pump gas which is very lean to begin with. Now it's the same as running 12.2:1 which is going to put you over the edge and you will start knocking and maybe burning pistons. It's just a thought.

And if you say the car doesn't have a 0-5v O2 then I guess me and the others doing this very same thing are just lieing to ourselves and our cars.

oh yeah one more thing. You can't use the NB simulator and expect to be able to log it and know what your AFR is. It's actually simulating the NB sensor in every way. The AFR slope is identical. That is it's way non linear. Thus it's completely acting as a NB so you can't read it accurately.