7000rpm 400hp....how many lbs min?

[14.5 drift]

Just wondering here.......I have awd auto, assuming 25% loss to wheels, how many lbs min to make 300whp/400crank hp?

I see guys makin good hp with small turbo's in middle but falls off up top (14b, s16g, evo16) do these cars need cams? or bigger turbo?

Then you look at the big turbo's, these things come on late but make a long flat power, very impressive, but not for me.

I just want like a medium bulge on my dyno sheet, but a nice flat, or linear power curve.

If any one would like to post up some dyno sheets, do your best. I would like to see one of an f8big28 if it's out there

Thanks for humoring my ????'s guys,

 

[Tallen]

Mid 40's would be my guess.

 

[1fast97gsx]

my friend dynoed 360 whp and flows about 37 lbs / min .... my car should be making more power but I only flow "27 lbs / min " according to my logger. I think if you mess with the mas or have an safc and big injectors it will throw it off.

 

[1fast97gsx]

I don't think a t28 will give you 400 whp....

 

[jim97gst]

FPbig28 dyno...

http://www.farnorthracing.com/

Go to "the car" and then at the bottom "dyno day".

 

[14.5 drift]

That t28 graph looks good, comes on and delivers the goods until 6900. Thanks jim.

1fast97gsx, I am not looking for 400whp, looking for 400 at the crank. Also 37 lbs min and 360 whp doesn't really ad up, but if thats what it is congrats, he must be fwd.

 

[jim97gst]

he must be fwd

For that dyno run he was. If you read through the whole thing, it says he converted to FWD for the dyno.

Keep in mind that this guy really knows what he's doing. He's running a full standalone for tuning. Notice also that he's making 376 ft/lbs of torque!

 

[14.5 drift]

I wasn't talking about that car jim, I was referring to fast97's frind's car. 37 lbs min and 360 whp is some stupid efficiency, it could only be front wheel drive since the awd would not be able to make such good use of the power.


But back to the fpbig28 car, I read that they converted it but wonder why go through the hassle and not drive over to the nearest awd dyno. Since the car will be converted back those results seem useless if not for a reproducable way to compare differeent tunes. Eitherway it looked good, and they said with new plugs they could have done better. I think I am going to be looking at the next turbo up in sizing though. I dont really have the equipment/experience/money they did to extract those types of numbers they did, I was thinking a slightly bigger turbo running a bit more in efficiency range should be perfect to pull out 3oo on an all wheel drive. If you notice he only had 310 hp @ 6900 in front wheel drive mode, would look more like 275ish in all wheel drive mode. What would you guys say to a t3to4e 46 trim with .48 A/R?

 

[kpt4321]

40 lb/min should get you 400 crank horsepower, with good tuning.

 

[Violater101]

I'm flowing around 41.5lbs/min and i'm not making 400whp..but more like 375 now. Recently dyno'd with only 13 deg of timing advance in 100deg heat and made 347 @21psi. It was just too hot to get any timing advance..I was actually retarding timing by a degree and the ecu was pulling a degree for intake temps and coolant temps. With cooler weather though, I expect to see around 375 changing nothing else but getting stock timing plus a degree or 2.

 

[BrnOutKing]

300whp = about 36-37lbs/min

400crank hp you need about 336whp which would be around = 41-42bls/min

 

[14.5 drift]

Perfect, that's exactly what I needed to know.

One more thing. When a flow rating is issued to a turbo, say 50 trim is rated to flow 47 lbs min, or 20g rated 44 lbs min, at what efficiency is that 47 or 44 lbs min rated at. I read that you dont want to work a turbo over 80 percent, so like if I wanted to flow 40 lbs, a turbo rated for 50 lbs would be best suited for the job, correct? Or are the ratings already accounting for this, meaning if it says 47 lbs it means 47 lbs efficiently?

 

[14.5 drift]

I guess what that means is it 47 lbs for every body, or just the people skilled enough to extract that amount of flow?

I am in no way a good tuner, in fact this will be my first car to heavily mod, but if I get the 46 trim, rated 40 lbs/min, will I easily be able to flow 40 lbs from it on a stock long block (plus cams)?

 

[nanokpsi]

Tuning will have little/no effect on airflow. Your set up will have a large impact on your airflow. On a 2g you are going to need a good sized turbo, cams, and a little over 20 psi to get the airflow you want. My scm 50 is flowing about 41-42 lb/min at 21-22 psi on my 2g w/ 264/272s.. In the next few weeks I will be bolting up a 1g head and a magnus SMIM which should add at least 5 lb/min to those numbers.

If you don't have cams, you are going to need to run a lot of boost to get the airflow you want. 40lb/min with good timing (20-23 deg) will usually yield a 115 trap or so.

Sice i am in tx i can also vouch for this god awfiul heat. I hate logging intake temps..... The track is almost open year round thogh

 

[kpt4321]

I guess what that means is it 47 lbs for every body, or just the people skilled enough to extract that amount of flow?

That's the maxium the turbo can flow. How much airflow you will see is totally dependant on your setup.

 

[67goatpimp]

I read that they converted it but wonder why go through the hassle and not drive over to the nearest awd dyno

from what i understand there is not an abundance of AWD dynos in the US, depending on his location, the nearest AWD dyno might be quite a trek. I have a buddy running a Celica Alltrac that converts to FWD on the off chance he's gonna dyno cuz there's not one close to us whereas there's 2 wheel dyno 10min from our apt.

 

[BrnOutKing]

with this new set up i was seeing 50bls/min at 20spi.


When I hit the Dyno i started at 382whp trying different things with fuel and timing brought it down to 355whp (but still flowed 50bls/min) - also got it up to 403whp...

so you see Tuning won't drastically effect Airflow that much.. In my experience I've seen 2-3more lbs/min with my turbo set up the lower the rpms I start to my run at.

If I start at 3500rpms I see 47-48lbs/min, If I start at 2200rpms I see 50-52lbs/min. I can't exactly tell why other then this turbo is big and it takes a while to get it to spool?

Anycase you are somewhat right with your logic if you need X amount of Flow don't buy a turbo that only flows that much cause, to get Max Flow out of a Turbo you'll need High Boost and probably race gas.

For your goals a 50trim with a .63 a/r is what your looking for.

 

[14.5 drift]

what is your guys opinions on this?

 

[kpt4321]

It's a nice turbo.

 

[jim97gst]

You could save yourself $200 by getting it directly from AGP.

http://www.agpturbo.com/customer/product.php?productid=30&cat=72&page=1