Treadstone 420a kit HP gains

[warhurst13]

What kind of hp gains can be seen with the treadstone turbo kit with the (.48 a/r,50 trim journal bearing), with different fuel setups. At around 8 psi, stock engine.


For example,

Treadstone kit + what fuel setup you would use or know works= xxxx horsepower gains.

[Cobo's Customs]

Originally Posted by warhurst13

What kind of hp gains can be seen with the treadstone turbo kit with the (.48 a/r,50 trim journal bearing), with different fuel setups. At around 8 psi, stock engine.


For example,

Treadstone kit + what fuel setup you would use or know works= xxxx horsepower gains.

from my experience you can use the stock engine and stock ecu and a 12:1 fmu with a walbro and a real good 3" exhaust and get a dependable 280hp at 8-9 psi with the stock injectors. sounds insane but it works and i have dyno papers to prove the numbers. I used a 60 trim turbonetics on that car with a cast iron manifold. once you do any other airflow mods you will start running too lean and lose power. you can however use bigger injectors and bypass the stock fpr and use an aftermarket one you can set yourself to avoid having to do a ecu and a good combo is 450cc injectors with a base fuel pressure of 20 psi (off boost) and a 8:1 fmu. that combo will allow as much as 18 psi boost with a safe afr but keep in mind the stock ecu has no timing retard so you will need forged pistons. there will be some haters that will say this is crap but i have 2 cars here with this setup and both run amazing and are daily drivers with turbo on a na ecu

420a eclipse high compression turbo @ 14 psi 2nd - 3rd gear light pull - YouTube

[warhurst13]

Originally Posted by Cobo's Customs

from my experience you can use the stock engine and stock ecu and a 12:1 fmu with a walbro and a real good 3" exhaust and get a dependable 280hp at 8-9 psi with the stock injectors. sounds insane but it works and i have dyno papers to prove the numbers. I used a 60 trim turbonetics on that car with a cast iron manifold. once you do any other airflow mods you will start running too lean and lose power. you can however use bigger injectors and bypass the stock fpr and use an aftermarket one you can set yourself to avoid having to do a ecu and a good combo is 450cc injectors with a base fuel pressure of 20 psi (off boost) and a 8:1 fmu. that combo will allow as much as 18 psi boost with a safe afr but keep in mind the stock ecu has no timing retard so you will need forged pistons. there will be some haters that will say this is crap but i have 2 cars here with this setup and both run amazing and are daily drivers with turbo on a na ecu

420a eclipse high compression turbo @ 14 psi 2nd - 3rd gear light pull - YouTube

280hp!? Damn I was expecting only around 225 or so. But that sound like a good setup to me. What if I was to switch to a mega squirt?

[Bud92gsx]

With no dyno info.I'm going to have to call BS on a 420a with stock internals doing 280 hp.

[EclipseOwner95]

A friend of mine used to have an RS-T that he made his own kit. T3 Super 60, stock injectors, FMU, etc etc.

He trapped 105-106 on 5psi. 280whp is a bit up there, but I'd imagine you can make 250whp safely.

He never put his car on the dyno, but if your trapping 105-106 in a 2800lb car it's safe to say your making decent power. He daily drove the car for well over a year and never had any problems with it.

[grothe3297venge]

Originally Posted by Bud92gsx

With no dyno info.I'm going to have to call BS on a 420a with stock internals doing 280 hp.

^^^^^ +2 I would also like to see these dyno sheets..

[fast420a83]

IF.. it was at all possible you would need a fresh rebuild, and a hell of a tune, but it wouldnt last long.

[glowryder]

yea.. thats not right at all.. 9 psi will net you in the 220, MAYBE 230. Im not sure where your getting the 280 #.. but thats bull.. Perhaps on MSnS. but even then that would be one hell of a tune.. and ###### some race gas. Rule of thumb is about 10hp per Psi..

Please dont get "hating" confused with knowlege. Please post these dyno numbers, because it seems your results are very A-typical, so i hope you can undersatnd the reasoning behind our questioning.

Ive never had an 8 psi build go over 230... typically its b.c your runnign an fmu or 12:1 where you cant tune, your just blindly fueling and its usually to rich..

running anything over 10 PSI witoutht forged internals is asking for it.. and Forged interals does not fix the "timing" issue.. Thats why most of us suggest not to run over 15 Psi without some way to controll Timing.. Same in a 2.4nt....You could run SRT internals, but you would still be limited by timing control. Just dont want some one to mis-understand whats being said.

[GSTurbo1]

on 5 psi small 16g megasquirt extra and some other things... i'm making 230 whp.

[glowryder]

megasquirt is why, you can controll timing, and tune better. Whats the rest of your setup? Are you runing seqential as well?

-no oone said its not possible, its just not typical, esp using stock everything , and bolting on a turbo.. youd be very very hard pressed to bolt a kit on, and run an "ancient" fuel system.. Because you can tune finer.. is why you got your numbers.. plus your built.. -_- were talking about stock bottoms here.. -_-

[99 gs iowa]

im making around 210 whp on 6psi on a 20g and a built motor, no way your making 280 on 5psi

[glowryder]

Hes got a built motor too, I would say its possible, but very very very very unlikly.. He is running MS.. so depending on how he is runnign MS, IE stand alone, his number could be possible.. but again , even then thats a pretty substantial gain.... Another factor is the dyno, not all are ezual, it could need a calibration.. bad lol..

IMO, there no use posting you "hp" numbers without Dyno PROOF. these forums seem to have alot of issues with people understanding what proof is lol. Post them up please, or your just bench racing.

edit: i think he edited to say 230, thats more reaonable.

[Cobo's Customs]

the rediculously over advanced timing they come with on the n/a ecu creates 280 as a dependable dd on a bone stock engine (good condition engine) as long as the fuel pump and fmu can make enough fuel to keep you around an 11:1 afr at the desired amount of boost (cooler less efficient burn). to make this work you also need a slightly oversized turbo because that also keeps the hot exhaust gas coming out of the cyl easier (more flow less boost) if you use ms or another route to tune it and you set the timing to a more normal turbo ignition map you will need more boost to make the same hp. I have done this way too many times on way too many vehicles to let anybody try to make me believe it wont work. my supra is set up this same way and so is my girls eclipse. you can find my youtube channel through the above video links to see how they perform.

supra has a 7mge ecu NOT GTE and it is on all factory cast internals and a non turbo harness with non turbo sensors and electronics. NO BOOST IGN RETARD.
it runs 10 psi daily and i beat the holy shi* out of it.

My girls eclipse is running a bone stock 1996 dodge stratus bottom end minus balance shafts with god knows how many miles on it (pick n pull junkyard) and its at only 6 psi on a 92 mm turbo with a ported head and huge cams. I am about to bring the boost up to 8 psi when the new wg spring arrives so we will see how far i can push the cast pistons on n/a timing. when you modify the engine for more airflow on top of boost like i did it makes more power with less boost and makes the breaking point less predictable. Please everybody just watch the videos before you start saying im bullsh*tting I dont have any dyno results yet but im realizing more and more i need to go get that for all the haters. PS I blew the built motor thats up there in the first video from a couple retarded boost spikes of 30+ since i had a melted wg line and didnt know it so now that car is on the low boost edz

7 psi boost on 92 trim turbo on 4 cyl eclipse with n/a ecu DSM! - YouTube

[PieEyedPiper]

6psi on a 92mm turbo.
http://www.compturbo.com/products/ct6billet/ct6_91100

You running one of these, brah?

[glowryder]

Yea.. idk about that setup sounds too large. But w.e

As for ms.. you will runn more efficently with lower boost, or any boost for that matter. your timing will be nore tuned then runing with the stock ecu. Running stock ecu is no where close to being tuned. Its the oppisite. And 11.1 afr is super rich.. and agin not even close to being tuned. So im not sure where this 280 hp number is comming from. Ut wont happen on a large turbo @6psi esp on a stock ecu.. maybey.. mayyyb ms.. but i doubt it. If it were possible.. it would be on a 16g size turbo.. not a monster turbo. Bigger is for top end and efficent at high psi. Look at compressor maps for the 16g and a 92mm.

Im not sure about the removing hot gassed from cycl. ## turbo shouldnt really effect that..

[Airsign89]

When HRC came out with their neon turbo kits in 1999, a number of people running the fmu setup dynoed around 200~230whp at 10psi on their "super" 16g. A guy from neons.org from the detroit area during this same time frame started making thicker head gaskets that would effectively lower compression by a point and with the HG and bigger injectors, afc and around 15psi, people were claiming to make in the high 200's...claiming being the key word.

[Cobo's Customs]

seriously all the theory that people come up with and their numbers for their "tuned" cars are not comparable. to "tune" a car for turbo your programming it to retard timing under boost so it can make safer temps in the combustion chamber. also the retarded timing allows better power at higher rpms. well a bigger turbo will always extend your usable power rpm range and always make more power with less boost. explain how a stock 4g63t can get beat over and over again by a 420a-t that is also stock but with a turbo and running half as much boost.... 420a-t has a bigger turbo and more advanced timing. the 420a-t is just more limited for upgrade at that point than the 4g63t. and as for the exhaust gas getting out of the cyl better.... think about how much flow you can put through the exhaust side of a .48 ar turbo and then look at my 1.05 ar on the eclipse we have and tell me which turbo is gonna create more pressure between the combustion chamber and the downpipe. i make more power with my 92mm turbo at 6-7 psi then any stock gst will at 18 psi and if you wanna challenge that come drive it yourself!

the cars i put together like this are all surviving very well and they are all very dependable and powerfull.

this channel will show proof of how these cars perform

MrPhukyew - YouTube

and this is the actual turbo were running

Turbo Specs :

•Compressor:
•Trim: 69
•A/R: .66
•Inducer: 68.7
•Exducer: 97.8

Turbine:
•Trim: 92
•A/R: 1.05
•Inducer: 87.4
•Exducer: 77




Turbine: Outlet = 4" Turbo flange = T4, Downpipe flange = 3.5" V-band

pic below of the actual turbo were using

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...42228593_n.jpg

Here is a 4g63t @20psi and a stock 420a at @10psi and they are dead even at the trap. I dont know these people but I found it to be a good example


GS 420a Turbo vs GST - YouTube

[glowryder]

what theory are you talking about?

Yes bigger flows better, obvious. However, there is something call "law of diminishing returns" where in short, bigger= better becomes un true. Does it still work? sure. There plenty of people running huge ass turbos, look at the srt guys, alot of them live by bigger is better, then get stomped by some one running a smaller turbo, thats efficient for their application. Cam profile will help you "expand" your power band well before a turbo will . running a larger turb to move your power band higher, means your sacrificing low end. Again, application, but anyone whos racing , ###### doesnt want that. . He could run any turbo and run no exhaust, or out the front bumper and then argument of bigger AR flies out the window becuase the flow rate deltas are very small. staying on topic..

Neon guys make good power, same as us , since its the same motor respectively. during the 1999 time, there werent alot of MS people, and PF was just starting to come out. so people were running "loose" tunes.

Stock bottom ends have made 230ish @ 8psi all day, with an AFR of 11.5 at wot, running stock computer. proven time and time again, so im not sure why theres so much question over the topic?
hell, we made 210 @ 6 psi on a conservative tune, stock top end and built bottom. If anything the built bottom hurts ya a lil at low PSI due to the typical lower CR.

Question that should be asked, is WHY. more often then not, , ruining stock bottom end doesnt last long with boost.

Typicially, our 8 Psi, is equal to a 4G6X'S 12-13 psi. but its a very loose observation made thu the years by most of the members here and on 2gnt

OP, figure out what you want before you go spending money. You want power, then build it,and forget a Turbo Kit, piece it together, you will get more bang for your buck.

[Cobo's Customs]

Another good example of an untuned 420a at low boost handing out azz whippings to a 4g63 with higher boost and an ecu that understands boost

Nippon Performance..la alberca 420a vs Gst 4g63t - YouTube

Again I dont know these people but I would be happy to make our own video if anybody has a 4g63 and is local. please dont think im trying to pick fights I just found a cheap way to do a low boost low budget turbo setup and pull good results and help the local people find hp they didn't know they could get so cheap

Psi does not equal hp. You keep saying xxxhp@**psi and they do have a whole lot to do with each other. You can do a na edz setup and get 230hp at 0 psi. The more exhaust you get past the turbo the more air/fuel you get into the combustion chamber and that's why I run oversized turbos. The advanced timing of a na ecu makes hotter combustion and hotter exhaust gas to spool a big turbo pretty quick anyways. I know that im not gonna make a 10 sec car this way but everybody I have already done this setup for on their own vehicle loves it! If you wanna make a 10 sec car your gonna need at least a ms if not better so you can run crazy amounts of boost but for half the price high 12s are not too hard to get from a stock 420a or edz with an na ecu

[glowryder]

I never said the equaled each other? Im stating a fact , im stating numbers that relate to the post. Im not sure that youe "found a new way" , as people have been doing "your new way" since 1995 with these.

Were just asking for you to post up numbers (proof) that you said you had. Videos are great , but unfortunately, theres to many unkown variables, ie the driver.

Should i have been able to beat a GSX on 6 psi un tuned ( 9.x afr, it was terrible) no, but i did , by 5+ car lengths. all due to the other drivers skill, or really lack there of lol. No doubt, its old news that some one can strap a 16 or 20g on a stock bottom end and get the fuel trims for WOT in the area of "tuned" and whoop a GST, thats been known for years, and done for years.

Lag is the main reason why im questioning this.. Yes larger turbo will work better at top end, but by then some one running a 16G or 20G that has low spool up, and has great power throught the range, will have blown by you already, making your large turbo setup, needing to work harder to catch up. again a lesson srt4 owners have learned. Thats why compressor maps are so important. sizing to your application is critical. To small and you boost qucik, but run out of efficiency in the upper area. Its like a moving window of efficiency.


A real test would be against a stock 420a thats boosted (sized to app, like a 16 or 20g), and a stock 420a thes boosted with a oversized turbo (your method) and see who comes out on top. Run them same PSI, and see who wins. that would also take HP outa the equation, and prove the best setup per application.
Any 2gs boosted on a stock bottom end in AZ? oR if anyones has time slips, please post them and your setup ( there may be a post with this already).

[Cobo's Customs]

I completely understand what your saying and turbo lag is a factor but running rich with a hot na timing curve you spool a giant turbo pretty quick. I would be cheating if I go up against any stock 420a with a "proper" size turbo with mine because it's an edz with huge cams and a ported head... But I could give an advantage and run 5psi... Any takers?

[glowryder]

no, they really should be both 420a's, but even with the 2.4 , i think with your setup youll be hard pressed.. running rich will make ## egts go don, thus less spool. That or take yours to the track and get time slips. you have egt numbers? id be interested to see how they are reacting to the setup. And it needs to be 5-8 PSI. for bth turbos.

[Cobo's Customs]

That's a great idea, im just gonna go find out what the trap speed is on this edz swap at 6 psi and then I'll do it again at 8psi just for the hell of it

[99 gs iowa]

Originally Posted by Cobo's Customs

That's a great idea, im just gonna go find out what the trap speed is on this edz swap at 6 psi and then I'll do it again at 8psi just for the hell of it

you should be kicked off this forum for all this false statements, anyone that knows anything about the 420as knows these numbers are nothing but lies, if these numbers were true you would defintly have a dam dynosheet! good luck building hope you blow it up!

[Cobo's Customs]

Originally Posted by 99 gs iowa

you should be kicked off this forum for all this false statements, anyone that knows anything about the 420as knows these numbers are nothing but lies, if these numbers were true you would defintly have a dam dynosheet! good luck building hope you blow it up!

wow your a real sweatheart. Watch the freaking videos and see how my cars perform with what little has been done. I wish you could pull up next to anything I drive! There is a YouTube link up there in this thread that takes you right to my Channel! Actually here is the link again MrPhukyew - YouTube im so sick of haters that only wanted 250hp and still wasted their 3000 dollars on lower comp on forged pistons and megasquirt and forged rods just to have a modest tune and get 210hp at 5 psi and never improve. I would be mad too but I wouldn't take it out on the guy that makes a living off doing it for less than half the price and has no unhappy customers. I have not been rude to anybody and im the only guy here that provides video proof of how my cars perform. Anybody can post up a dyno/time slip and it may even be their friends paper or one they downloaded from google images. its no wonder friends told me to stay off the forums, now I know it's because everybodies feelings get hurt too easy and then they lash out like children for the simple sharing of multi time proven money saving techniques. I'm sure alot of people on here dont agree with me but at least they are willing to debate without insult

Originally Posted by 99 gs iowa

you should be kicked off this forum for all this false statements, anyone that knows anything about the 420as knows these numbers are nothing but lies, if these numbers were true you would defintly have a dam dynosheet! good luck building hope you blow it up!

so sad, now since I hurt feelings I am getting pm'd with policy reminders not to put up videos of "street racing" its all good guys I thought I could help the people with hp goals under 300 save alot of money and hassle but by doing so and very successfully making a living off this and feeding my family with the money I earn setting up cars this way I am hurting peoples feelings when i debate with them. Get over yourself!! the way you do things is not the only way to do it and its quite a bit more expensive! I'm done with this thread and the kids that dump all their money into engine management and forged internals to get less whp than a stock srt4 because they don't even know how to tune or because they are too busy talking crap on here to add a couple psi and make their turbo worth all the cash they wasted on the ms to run the base tune that couldn't burn a cardboard piston! Have fun with your beliefs and I hope to god you pull up next to me one day cause then there will be a street race you will go home and cry to your boyfriend about! goodbye everybody that was respectful and glowryder I appreciate you being one of the few that stated your opinion without being a douche about it.

[PieEyedPiper]

Cobo's Customs, could you please explain to me why timing advance is producing higher EGTs than "less" timing advance?

[glowryder]

"Cobo's Customs, could you please explain to me why timing advance is producing higher EGTs than "less" timing advance"
This is what i was also wondering an asking above

and i can still be a doosh ; )

Ill say a few more things. 1, you cant compare 420a to srt.. its not a 1:1 lets not get into piston desing of thisr loc comp vs the piston desing of a 420a Low comp..theres alot to be said there, but its deff not a 1:1 comparison. Those motors were manufacutred to have more Tq, it would take a redesing of th 420a to put it in that class b.c of where the quench areas are etc.

2. most of us dont waste our money with those things like MS and forged interanls. Most of us are building for overhead/scaleability. 99eclipse will turn his stuff up, its not a matter of being afraid etc, its a matter of upgrade path. His clutch , lack of LSD etc are why he isnt turnign it up, yet. Yes theres a cheap way to do it, and a not so cheap way.. Your customers may be happy with what they have, and thats great, but theres little to no scalability in it. they really cant "safely" do much more. Again, some people have gotten away with adding more PSi, I know a few have ran 12 PSI on stock block for a while, but in the end.. it does go boom. If they did want to go more, then they would need all the Forged goodies etc.. Now your looking at more labor / machining etc costs. good for you b.c youll make money, but sucky for them since its pretty much starting over..

I know most if not all of us catch the boost bug. When 99 eclipse said he wanted turbo, thats was great, i helpd guid him on what he should do, to ensure his money was spent efficently, not just for the immdiate need of feeling boost, but down the road when he wanted to turn it up, b.c i knew he would. Sure he is built on 5 psi. is that a wast of a built bottom, sure.. IF he were to stay there. but he isnt, hes goign to build the trans to hold and put down the power that more PSI will give.

Videos are nice, and yes dyno sheets can be faked. But, you said you had the "have dyno papers to prove the numbers", thats all we wanted to see. I prefer both , i love vids, i also like dyno sheets.

Cheap - Fast - Reilaible. Pick 2.. are there some that get away with all 3? Sure.. but few and far between.. and for how long. perhaps i should put another variable in there? TBB (Time before boom), but that falls under reliability. I think its a pretty proven formula ; )

[99 gs iowa]

[QUOTE=Cobo's Customs;153015656]wow your a real sweatheart. Watch the freaking videos and see how my cars perform with what little has been done. I wish you could pull up next to anything I drive! There is a YouTube link up there in this thread that takes you right to my Channel! Actually here is the link again MrPhukyew - YouTube im so sick of haters that only wanted 250hp and still wasted their 3000 dollars on lower comp on forged pistons and megasquirt and forged rods just to have a modest tune and get 210hp at 5 psi and never improve. I would be mad too but I wouldn't take it out on the guy that makes a living off doing it for less than half the price and has no unhappy customers. I have not been rude to anybody and im the only guy here that provides video proof of how my cars perform. Anybody can post up a dyno/time slip and it may even be their friends paper or one they downloaded from google images. its no wonder friends told me to stay off the forums, now I know it's because everybodies feelings get hurt too easy and then they lash out like children for the simple sharing of multi time proven money saving techniques. I'm sure alot of people on here dont agree with me but at least they are willing to debate without insult


i could easily turn up the boost, but im not gonna be stupid an do it an stock clutch an trans.. y wont i? maybe cus i actually know what im doing, an id love to run you on the streets, only thing id have to do is hook up the boost controller and youd never be able to hang, but im out have a good time on here lying about your numbers,