Holset Turbos, PART 7

[jm1080]

Manifold pressure has nothing to do with the limits of your bottom end. Unless your tune is off, 50lb/min@30psi is going to stress your bottom end the same as 50lb/min@35psi.
I was running 35psi on my WH1C with a stock 135k mile engine. I didnt even have head studs.

You have to make your own o2 housing and/or downpipe.

I see what you mean, but still 50lbs/min is a lot for a stock engine, so your saying you can go as much as possible and have no negative effects on vehicle as long as car is tuned properly? Like for instance I can run 60lbs/min as long as I do not knock, etc.? What would be the first to go?

Also on stock BEP housing and hx35 whats the max flow you can achieve on the mitsu housing? Has anyone maxed it out and if so what psi level and how much flow?

 

[GST95]

I see what you mean, but still 50lbs/min is a lot for a stock engine, so your saying you can go as much as possible and have no negative effects on vehicle as long as car is tuned properly? Like for instance I can run 60lbs/min as long as I do not knock, etc.? What would be the first to go?

Also on stock BEP housing and hx35 whats the max flow you can achieve on the mitsu housing? Has anyone maxed it out and if so what psi level and how much flow?

This is getting a little off topic. Thats not exactly what im saying, but once you get close to the limits of an internal part your tune being off can cause it to be over that limit. What im saying is pressure doesnt make power or break parts. Volume does. 35lb/min@40psi would cause less stress on internal parts than 40lb/min@35psi would. There are too many variables to say what the first part to let go would be. If you rev past the stock rev limit, it usually is the stock rod bolts that let go. If you run a little lean, it might burn a piston. If you run too much advance or get knock it might burn a piston, bend a rod, or if your lucky just blow a head gasket. If your tune is conservative, but you are just making too much power, you will most likely bend a rod. A local guy bent a stock 6 bolt rod running 10.8@128 for a while.

 

[jm1080]

Ah ok, sorry to get off topic, was interested in your response. I guess once one thing goes, I will be upgrading bottom end

Now back to topic, so whats the max flow on hx35 mitsu BEP housing? Like how much boost would it take to achieve the max flow of 55lbs/min? I know it depends on setup, but those who have maxed it out. how much boost did you guys run to atleast get in the 50+lbs/min, just looking for numbers.

 

[rampridersrider]

Just food for thought. I took the car out and played with timing advance/retard today to see what spool times I could get and if I could improve on them at all. I first started with just pulling all my timing (DSMLink V2) out from 2000-4000 rpm and adding 5% fuel. I was originally hitting 27 psi by around 4500 rpm, by retarding timing this much I was able to hit 27 psi by around 3900 rpm. Unfortunetly as you may have guessed, the car did not like this at all. When I would go WOT out of boost the car was seeing -6* of timing and as soon as full boost hit it would pop/kick/buck/sputter its ass off. I'm assuming this was because it was going from such low timing and rich condition to a lot of timing advance/boost/lean condition that it would just blow the spark out as the cylinders weren't very hot. Just a theory. I ended up trying only -5 of retard and it would do the same thing but still spool up a lot faster than usual. I normally run around +10* of timing over stock timing maps out of boost so the car has plenty of power and torque off boost and isn't a laggy drama queen. This was on the 7 blade HX35 with the 12cm housing.

 

[My1GLaser]

I am running a 7 Blade HX35 in the BEP bolt-on housing. I am getting about 46-47 lb/min at 29-30 psi right now. I am starting to overrun my MAF, and the airflow is a little jagged. I was getting about 44-45 lb/min at 26-27 psi, so the numbers should be good.

I ran that time <----- last night on my first run of the season, then my clutch started slipping before I could really dial it in It was at 26-27 psi, which hits right at 4k. I had to pull about 4-5* timing in the spool up range and it still spools as fast as my 18g. My 70-90 is about 1.4 sec according to the dependable 1g speed sensor. I expect low 11s and about 125 trap at 30 psi when I get the clutch to stop slipping after a launch. Probably high 10s when I turn it up to 35 psi, which will be soon. This is on 50/50 E-85 & pump.

 

[Gooberlog]

damn, that was on an ACT 2600 too. I have a 2100 now but i know the HX will obliterate that clutch. I was thinking a 2600 should be enough though. I may have to reconsider.

 

[rampridersrider]

My 2600 and Southbend Kevlar disc holds 54 lbs/min and my heavy ass 2g just fine so far. I havn't tried really launching it yet though. Lol.

 

[kp116]

damn, that was on an ACT 2600 too. I have a 2100 now but i know the HX will obliterate that clutch. I was thinking a 2600 should be enough though. I may have to reconsider.

I have a act 2600 with a 6 puck disc and it hold up extremely well. A buddy of mine made 560wtq with a 2600 and a full faced street disc...

 

[98GSt_4life]

does this look real?

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[dsmtalontsi95]

I am running a 7 Blade HX35 in the BEP bolt-on housing. I am getting about 46-47 lb/min at 29-30 psi right now. I am starting to overrun my MAF, and the airflow is a little jagged. I was getting about 44-45 lb/min at 26-27 psi, so the numbers should be good.

I ran that time <----- last night on my first run of the season, then my clutch started slipping before I could really dial it in It was at 26-27 psi, which hits right at 4k. I had to pull about 4-5* timing in the spool up range and it still spools as fast as my 18g. My 70-90 is about 1.4 sec according to the dependable 1g speed sensor. I expect low 11s and about 125 trap at 30 psi when I get the clutch to stop slipping after a launch. Probably high 10s when I turn it up to 35 psi, which will be soon. This is on 50/50 E-85 & pump.

Nice run man. 11's are within reach, Here is a log from my run. I hit the rev limiter in first (been a while since I was at the track). I feel with better driving, suspension, and twin disc low 11's and 130 are within reach. Also I'm goin to make the switch to e85. That was on 93 pump.

 

[Gooberlog]

I have a act 2600 with a 6 puck disc and it hold up extremely well. A buddy of mine made 560wtq with a 2600 and a full faced street disc...

Nice to know, i have heard good things about 2600/6puck. I need to look in to that soon.

 

[dsm-onster]

Just food for thought. I took the car out and played with timing advance/retard today to see what spool times I could get and if I could improve on them at all. I first started with just pulling all my timing (DSMLink V2) out from 2000-4000 rpm and adding 5% fuel. I was originally hitting 27 psi by around 4500 rpm, by retarding timing this much I was able to hit 27 psi by around 3900 rpm. Unfortunetly as you may have guessed, the car did not like this at all. When I would go WOT out of boost the car was seeing -6* of timing and as soon as full boost hit it would pop/kick/buck/sputter its ass off. I'm assuming this was because it was going from such low timing and rich condition to a lot of timing advance/boost/lean condition that it would just blow the spark out as the cylinders weren't very hot. Just a theory. I ended up trying only -5 of retard and it would do the same thing but still spool up a lot faster than usual. I normally run around +10* of timing over stock timing maps out of boost so the car has plenty of power and torque off boost and isn't a laggy drama queen. This was on the 7 blade HX35 with the 12cm housing.

Sounds like you need V3 with direct access.

 

[kp116]

Nice to know, i have heard good things about 2600/6puck. I need to look in to that soon.

If you get a 2600 a nice full faced street disc will probably be just fine. My 6 puck holds the power just fine but I have heard that 6 pucks do a number on your drivetrain along with your flywheel. A full faced disc makes it much more easy to drive on the streets.

 

[Gooberlog]

For anyone searching for a HX35w this guy in the classifies has one with shaft play but $300 includes shipping and a rebuild kit.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/classified...1/-lots-of-brand-new-performance-parts--7728/

 

[JusMX141]

Rebuilt my first HE351 tonight for a local Cummins guy. It was a non-VGT model, and I found out some interesting facts along the way.

• The HE351 uses the same center housing as a HY35, so any of the HX/HY rebuild kits will rebuild a non-VGT HE.
  
  
• The HE351 I rebuilt used the newest 7-blade HX40 compressor, part number 4035879, mated to a HY35 turbine. An interesting combination mating a giant compressor to the smallest turbine wheel available for use on a 5.9 Cummins.
  
  
• This customer regularly beats the living shit out of this turbo. He claimed that even with all the shaft play it had (enough that the wheels had being to hit the housings and the turbine seal was gone) the turbo still made 48psi. That's right, a blown Holset can still make twice the boost that will normally cause a journal-bearing Garrett T3/T4 hybrid to pack up it's wheels and leave.

 

[dsm-onster]

I new of the vgt versions having the large compressor wheel, but figured it would be a good combination since the housing opens up to around 25cm^2 . . . but that's interesting that you can get these hx40 compressors on any HE351

 

[jrohner]

Rebuilt my first HE351 tonight for a local Cummins guy. It was a non-VGT model, and I found out some interesting facts along the way.

Was it T3, or some weird flange?

 

[dsm-onster]

Keep in mind that diesel gases are colder and, thus, denser. Therefore whatever lb/min flow through the compressor, more can get through the turbine because the temp of the gases prevent so much expansion. The very reason why diesel motors need smaller faster spooling turbines, or those with better efficiency (twinscroll) is the same reason why they CAN be smaller and still flow alot more mass.

Too many around the sport compact relm are too far off with the characteristics of a "diesel" turbo. They don't understand that considering the size of the motors involved, the hotside is build VERY small because of VERY low peak rpms and VERY much colder exhaust gases used. When they see 18cm^2 with an h1c, they don't see "twinscroll" and "non-wastegated".

 

[JusMX141]

Was it T3, or some weird flange?

T3 non-divided. Appeared to be a similar housing to the HY35 with a large v-band on the outlet instead of the bolt-on v-band flange the HX/HY35's use.

I believe what I rebuilt is considered the HE351CW; looked identical to this beast:

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[Gooberlog]

I believe what I rebuilt is considered the HE351CW; looked identical to this beast:

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NICE! So are most of the rebuilds you do these days on Holsets or do you get just as many garrets, PTEs etc? What's the process if someone wants their turbo rebuilt?

 

[JusMX141]

NICE! So are most of the rebuilds you do these days on Holsets or do you get just as many garrets, PTEs etc?

More PTE junk than anything (that should tell you something); they're Garrett-based so that would count as "Garrett". Probably less Holsets than anything; although it's whatever the demand brings. Some months I do nothing but MHI turbos because there are so many out there.

What's the process if someone wants their turbo rebuilt?

Check out my ad in the Freelance section for more details.

 

[dsmmatt28]

More PTE junk than anything (that should tell you something); they're Garrett-based so that would count as "Garrett". Probably less Holsets than anything; although it's whatever the demand brings. Some months I do nothing but MHI turbos because there are so many out there.

Check out my ad in the Freelance section for more details.

I can say that Justin has the best customer service that I have experienced. I would send my turbo to him any day for a rebuild or if you just wanted to buy one from him.

 

[JusMX141]

Keep in mind that diesel gases are colder and, thus, denser.

They don't understand that considering the size of the motors involved, the hotside is build VERY small because of VERY low peak rpms and VERY much colder exhaust gases used.

I quizzed the owner about some things today when I did my followup to see how his turbo is doing since it was rebuilt (it's fine, by the way). He's saying at 48psi the HE351 is seeing 1550* with the EGT probe at the collector (pre-turbine, just like ours). That sort-of blew my mind- those are EGT's that you'd expect to see from a gasser!

Does the smaller turbine wheel / housing combination have an effect on EGT's? Older twin-scroll diesel housings seem much cooler; hell the Garrett on my dad's Freightliner normally operated around 900*f to 1200*f, and it's a huge twin-scroll turbo.

I can say that Justin has the best customer
service that I have experienced. I would send my turbo to him any day for a rebuild or if you just wanted to buy one from him.

I really appreciate the kind words! My business is based on good customer service, honesty, prompt service as well. I'm only one guy, and occasionally I'm faced with doing 5-6 rebuilds over the course of a weekend....but I'll stay in the shop until 3am if I have to in order to get the job done.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I have to admit he goes out of his way ive bought two from jus and, hes great to deal with.

 

[turboboy4]

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Started the installation of my HE351cw on my talon this week so far so good, took quite a bit of fab to get the 4" v band down to 3" O2 housing in such a tight space. Going to exhaust rap this to keep heat off the altenator. Also re-clocked the housings so the lower intercooler pipe will fit similair to the t25. Should be pretty sweet hope to get some pics up soon