Dual in-tank 255HP's in 2G for Quad fuel pump setup

[twicks69]

I am in the process of accumulating the parts required to install another set of fuel pumps in my car and am looking for anyone that has pictures of a twin in-tank fuel pump setup on a 2G AWD.

I am curently maxxing out the twin fuel pump setup consisting of a Walbro 255HP in-tank running a AN-6 feed line off the stock hard line fitting, then running to a Walbro 255HP in-line fuel pump, then to a -6AN line to an in-line fuel filter to the fuel rail. The fuel rail is a 1G stock rail with FIC Bluemax 1350cc injectors and an AN-6 return line to the fuel pressure regulator and then to the stock return line.

The new setup is going to be a quad fuel pump setup consisting of two identical pump setups as listed above.

Dual in-tank Walbro 255HP's in parallel with each fuel pump running an AN-6 feed line to in-series Walbro 255HP's per fuel pump, then each fuel feed line will run to an independent fuel filter and then to both ends of a billet fuel rail machined for a center-mounted return line to the AFPR.

I will be running AN-6 bulkhead fittings on the pickup assembly for individual feed lines, and an AN-8 bulkhead fitting for my return line. The key problem I am facing is HOW I am going to fit both fuel pumps with bulkhead fittings on a 2G fuel pickup assembly? I know how to do all the wiring, and the rest of the plumbing is simple.

I already have all the pumps, fittings, etc. I just need to get some direction by people that have done twin in-tank fuel pump setups on a 2G with individual feed lines and a larger-than-stock return line so I can see some pictures of how they ran the pumps in the pickup assembly.

Ideas are welcome! Pics are even better!


Oh yeah, the Walbro 255HP in-tank to 255HP in-line with AN-6 feed to 1350cc injectors maxed out the pumps at 779AWHP, and the same pump setup on 1000cc injectors nearly maxed out the pumps at 766AWHP/713TQ on the old setup.

I am shooting for over 900AWHP, so this is the setup I am going with.

I don't know if anyone else has attempted to run quad fuel pumps in this orientation on a DSM before though. The only people I know running triple or quad fuel pumps are supra guys that have bolt-on options.

As well, the Full Blown twin-in-tank fuel pump assembly is ONLY an option IF it has individual AN-6 feed lines and an AN-8 return line. I do not want to run a Y-fitting or anything with only one feed line -- it must be two individual feed lines (parallel) to in-series fuel pumps.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Also...I am on a time crunch....I have 8 days to create, fab, install, plumb, and wire up the quad fuel pumps for the next race. If it isn't done by the next race, then I am on my own schedule for doing it.

Thanks,

 

[twicks69]

Here is a diagram of the overall setup:

 

[1slow97]

Man, That is a lot of fuel pumps. Why not keep it kinda simple and just go with a dual Bosch 44's?

 

[Zex4g63]

Why all this hassle Tim when one Aeromotive or Weldon will get the job done? Good luck on the project tho.

 

[clockworktoy]

My guess is your looking for something like this?
<img src=http://streettunedmotorsports.com/parts/b/full_blown_dual_pump_hanger_2g_dsm.jpg>

These are for sale from STM. STM - FULL BLOWN DUAL PUMP HANGER | 2G DSM 95-99
Hope this is somewhat useful.

 

[TurboAnything]

I have posted before about twin walbros in the tank with a stock sender housing. It is not hard a little welding and fitting and you are there. I actually welded 2 hard line going thru the housing lid and put -8 fitting on the end outside the car.

 

[twicks69]

My guess is your looking for something like this?
<img src=http://streettunedmotorsports.com/parts/b/full_blown_dual_pump_hanger_2g_dsm.jpg>

These are for sale from STM. STM - FULL BLOWN DUAL PUMP HANGER | 2G DSM 95-99
Hope this is somewhat useful.

Unfortunately this part is not an option, as it only utilizes one feed line, one return line, and one bypass line. I am requiring TWO feed lines, and a larger -8AN return line, and one bypass line.

I have known about their dual setup for a long time, but I need the dual individual feed lines as part of the setup. Thanks!


Zex4g63 - It isn't too much of a hassle really, and the Walbros are way more reliable than an Aeromotive pump, and substantially quieter than the Weldon pump. The quad setup I am fabbing is more than enough fuel for 2000HP. I also wanted it this way as I will be adding another fuel rail to the mix and will be running each twin pump setup to each fuel rail with 1350cc primaries, and 1650cc secondaries, and then both rail returns to the AFPR and then a AN-8 return line back to the tank. This setup can handle well over 100psi of line pressure -- something that the Aeromotive electric fuel pumps cannot. The Weldon can, but you will literally have a lawnmower engine running in the back of the car with how loud the pumps are.

1slow97 - The dual Bosch -044's would get close to the power I am running, but the only configuration that would work would be one in-tank with one in-line, as two -044's cannot fit in the stock 2G fuel tank/pickup assembly. As well, I already have the Walbros, and I know their capacity, availability, and cost of replacement.


Thanks for all the great comments people.

I am still looking for people that have actually done a dual in-tank setup on a 2G pickup assembly with individual bulkhead feeds.

 

[twicks69]

I have posted before about twin walbros in the tank with a stock sender housing. It is not hard a little welding and fitting and you are there. I actually welded 2 hard line going thru the housing lid and put -8 fitting on the end outside the car.

Wasn't that on a 2G FWD pickup assembly? I thought I remember reading that thread a while back when you did it. Could you post up the link to the thread again?

Thanks,

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

What about this? http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/322760-dual-wallys-look-what-i-made-today.html

Or

I have a stock 2g AWD tank in my garage. It's been a long time since I've looked at it but If I remember correctly isn't there a provision for another sending unit on the other side? I would try to find another sending unit, plug your pump into it and slap it in the other side. Then you'd have a pump in each side of the tank. I'm not sure if the siphon tube would be needed at that point.

Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't looked at it in a while.

Edit: Here's the best pic I could find. Looks like the driver's side is only used for the siphon tube over to the passenger's side.

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Unfortunately this part is not an option, as it only utilizes one feed line, one return line, and one bypass line. I am requiring TWO feed lines, and a larger -8AN return line, and one bypass line.

Edit: Or for an ultimate setup, do what I suggested and drop one of these in each side. Then all 4 of your pumps would be in the tank!!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Zex4g63]

Tim I am running a Weldon 1100A and it's not even remotely loud. It's also self priming unlike many other pumps.

 

[viperlp01]

I was just about to ask about the other side of the tank.. That would be tight.. It seems very possible but the only thing i see being a problem is if what if one side ran out of gas or the gas shifted to one side??? That would suck..

 

[twicks69]

I was just about to ask about the other side of the tank.. That would be tight.. It seems very possible but the only thing i see being a problem is if what if one side ran out of gas or the gas shifted to one side??? That would suck..

well, the gas shifting is normally taken care of by the byass tube/check tube that feeds off the stock return line in the main pump pickup assembly, shifting it over to the driver-side. Inside the driver-side is a tube that goes down inside the tank and acts as a siphon.

I am going to contact Full-Blown and see if they are capable of making a custom twin-intank setup utilizing two individual feed lines and the AN-8 return line, while retaining the bypass line.

The key thing I don't know about the driver's side is if there is an anti-slosh baffling on that side of the tank, or if the depth is capable of capacitating another pickup assembly.

I would also like to know if the Full Blown one utilizes a fuel level indicator or warning light indicator or the pressure bypass plumbing from the stock pickup assembly.

Update:

Well, I just spoke with Paul at Full Blown, and he is looking into the feasibility of making a twin-pump hanger that utilizes individual feed lines. He thinks it is doable by making another feed fitting on the opposite end of the assembly from the existing feed line with some CNC program modifications during fab, and then using a 180-degree hose fitting to wrap it around the pickup assembly to get it running by the other feed line.

I will have more info when I get it from him.

 

[jshuman]

Have you considered using the aeromotive pump with the adapter bracket that magnus sells so the pump runs off of the cam gear?

 

[twicks69]

Have you considered using the aeromotive pump with the adapter bracket that magnus sells so the pump runs off of the cam gear?

Yes I have for several years now, and this is not an option I am entertaining. Thanks.

 

[Gamble97]

Get a manafuel pump and it will solve your problems. It's dumb to run 4 fuel pumps.
Get the fullblown setup with an 8an feed and 2 255's in tank that is all you need. One feed line will be just fine.
OR if you don't like that option. 255 intank with an 8an feed to a bosch 044 -8an in and -6out if you don't want to change anything.

You should just add the bosch 044 and loose the 255 inline and you will have plenty of fuel.

 

[twicks69]

Gamble, I am looking for hanger design ideas -- not different fuel pumps. The Magnafuel MP-4103 would likely do it, at $800 for the pump, not including the fact that I will need a fuel cell to run it on a 2G AWD for fuel pickup. As well, two 255HP's in-tank will come close to my goals, but not when they are running at 100-105psi of line pressure under full boost -- hence the reason for the in-line pumps, along with increasing the in-tank's pump efficiency at higher pressures.

I already have all the pumps, lines, etc. to make quad pumps work -- I am looking for a way of mounting them in the 2G AWD saddle fuel tank.

The key issue I will likely be facing is overrunning the factory siphon that runs to the driver-side of the saddle tank. Is anyone running a larger diameter siphon to fix the overrunning of the stock siphon at idle/low throttle conditions?

As well, I need this setup to accomodate 1300HP on race gas. I also have made this design to accomodate dual rails by having individual feeds. Each in-tank/in-line pump assembly will be seperately wired on their own 2-signal 60A relay.

There is a good likelyhood of changing over to E98 in the future as it is available to me, so I need the fuel system able to capacitate 2000HP of gas on a forced induction EFI setup. THAT, is why I am doing it how I am.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Well I popped the driver's side assembly out to check and see if there is any baffling inside. There is not. I do believe it's just as deep as the passenger's side though.

 

[turbosax2]

The key issue I will likely be facing is overrunning the factory siphon that runs to the driver-side of the saddle tank. Is anyone running a larger diameter siphon to fix the overrunning of the stock siphon at idle/low throttle conditions?

Some people drill the siphon out to 1/8". I've also seen a guy machine down a 1/4" barb fitting to fit inside a 3/8" tee and replace the stock siphon with that.

 

[twicks69]

Some people drill the siphon out to 1/8". I've also seen a guy machine down a 1/4" barb fitting to fit inside a 3/8" tee and replace the stock siphon with that.

I am a bit wary of drilling out the siphon diameter as it would affect its flow/design.

What about Teeing in a 5 or 10psi check valve before the stock siphon inside the pickup assembly?

 

[99gst_racer]

I am a bit wary of drilling out the siphon diameter as it would affect its flow/design.

There's a 4-page thread somewhere on the Link boards with some great discussion about the siphon. They measured the venturi "draw" at several different inside diameters, and 1/8" is the largest it could be drilled without sacrificing loss of the siphon/venturi draw. I was having issues earlier this year with blowing my siphon off and running out of fuel when there was still some sloshing around on the other side of the driveshaft. I credited it to the amount of fuel I was trying to return through the stock return line (pumps are a 255 feeding an 044). After drilling the siphon out to 1/8" ID, and reinforcing it's connection, I have zero issues with running the tank all the way down.

 

[twicks69]

There's a 4-page thread somewhere on the Link boards with some great discussion about the siphon. They measured the venturi "draw" at several different inside diameters, and 1/8" is the largest it could be drilled without sacrificing loss of the siphon/venturi draw. I was having issues earlier this year with blowing my siphon off and running out of fuel when there was still some sloshing around on the other side of the driveshaft. I credited it to the amount of fuel I was trying to return through the stock return line (pumps are a 255 feeding an 044). After drilling the siphon out to 1/8" ID, and reinforcing it's connection, I have zero issues with running the tank all the way down.

Paul, thanks for the great info! Unfortunately, I am not part of the Link forums as I am an AEM user only.

Is there a link that works to see the discussion on this topic?

Thanks,

 

[turbosax2]

PM sent.

 

[Gamble97]

I still think the idea of 4 fuel pumps is dumb. That is going to pull some major amperage at WOT.
Not to mention a huge waste of money with buying all the lines and fittings etc etc.

Local shop car is running 9.5s with a fullblown (2) 255s intank. That is it. Simple.

 

[snowborder714]

Does it really matter what other cars have run on? This is what Tim wants to do, he has the supplies, and maybe wants to do something unique. Stop badgering him please.

 

[dSmgs-T]

If he plans on running e98 do you honestly think 2intank fuel pumps are going to support 8-900hp?