2G CTS-V brake caliper swap (Brembo)

[VETTE_50_TH]

Is this combination actually tested or known to work now?

No and no. However, this seems to work though. The bolt pattern is known to work. And based off the size of the rotors needed to fit the calipers, it SHOULD work. We can try to get this solid info posted but what i posted should work.

Will this fit the stock 17" wheels? My rotors are in horrible shape and so are my calipers. I'll be swapping out in the next 3-6 months so if they fit stock GSX 17", I'll try it out. I saw the calipers for $200 on ebay plus $200 for the front rotors. Telling the wife that I need new rotors ($100 and $80 for calipers) I can swing the extra $120 plus parts. Will this interfere with the ABS?

d

This will not fit a 17 inch rotor. The massive size of a 14inch rotor require a 18 inch rim.

James

 

[m_0ney_pit]

FYI- ebc green stuff brake pads are probably more cost effective...they are ~$140 most places online for both.

 

[daren_p]

I would contact Todd at TCE Performance (think one of our sponsors), if there's a 14" rotor that would work on our applpication, I'm sure he'd know.

 

[eclipsh]

Wow, really cool find. Too bad you probably need 18" wheels. I wonder if those of us running the Evo 17" wheels might be able to clear them. If not, the biggest cost for most of us will be new wheels and tires

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

When i get to Columubus, Chris and I are going half in on one side to test fit these. I have 18 inch rims already from an evoX that i will use to test fit on my 1g. Which will work obviously on a 2g as well. We will see how it goes.

James

 

[m_0ney_pit]

I checked the thicknesses of the ZO6 rotors the LT1 guys use vs. the g37 rotors

Z06-1.26"
G37-1.3"

Looks like we are ok with the NISMO g37 rotors. I believe they are made by Akabono for Nissan.

Looks like the last challenge is determining the offset correction needed by use of washers...James and I are buying a test caliper and rotor to verify or disprove this setup.

We should stick with the evo rear rotors/calipers...the cts-v rears are way to much for what we need.

Looking at a comparison pic of the evo brembo and the cts-v brembo, I just wonder if the evo has a larger piston diameter?

 

[Morphius]

*stuff*

What's your first name?

 

[Apeximprt2nr]

I was psyched for this until I saw the need of 18'' wheels... Though I'm still interested to see if this works out.

 

[polarmoment]

What does this do to the brake bias?

If it shifts the bias forward too much, you'll actually lose braking ability.

 

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

I might have time later this week to bolt my spare CTS-V calipers on my Talon. I have a full set of those and Evo Brembos.

 

[DSM mechanix]

What does this do to the brake bias?

If it shifts the bias forward too much, you'll actually lose braking ability.

The calipers have a much smaller total piston surface area, so you'd need the 14" rotors just to keep the bias the same.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

Darn I was hoping this wasn't true.

Considering that the evo 8/9 rotor are 12" I don't think we are going to experience anything but really nice gains in braking performance. Can anyone do a calculation to prove this?

Chris

The calipers have a much smaller total piston surface area, so you'd need the 14" rotors just to keep the bias the same.

I think the rears have a wider bolt spacing but I may be incorrect

I might have time later this week to bolt my spare CTS-V calipers on my Talon. I have a full set of those and Evo Brembos.

 

[DSM mechanix]

Darn I was hoping this wasn't true.

Considering that the evo 8/9 rotor are 12" I don't think we are going to experience anything but really nice gains in braking performance. Can anyone do a calculation to prove this?

Chris

I'm going to keep it simple and not get into all the numbers. Just compare for yourself.

DSM AWD front caliper piston diameters are 42.9 and 42.9, mounted on a small rotor.
EVO VIII front caliper piston diameters are 40mm and 46mm, mounted on a larger rotor.
CTS-V front caliper piston diameters are 36mm and 40mm, mounted on a huge rotor.

In the end the CTS-V kit with 14" rotors will give you roughly the same exact brake torque as stock AWD front brakes, ignoring brake pad compounds and sizes. Note that the EVO brakes have more front brake torque than the stock AWD brakes, the EVO rear have more brake torque and should even the bias out fine.

 

[97eclipseNT]

you have to take into account the actual swept area of the pads and that the evo/cts-v calipers are 4 piston instead of 2 piston calipers as well.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

Camaro SS calipers (even more cheap...about $88 each.) I beleive also have a 130mm bolt spacing but I'm not 100% sure yet. camaro ss has a 14mm mounting bolt. The caliper alsois anodized black so we can just strip that ugle chevy lettering right off.





Camaro ss part numbers 92233188 & 92233189

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

I'm going to keep it simple and not get into all the numbers. Just compare for yourself.

DSM AWD front caliper piston diameters are 42.9 and 42.9, mounted on a small rotor.
EVO VIII front caliper piston diameters are 40mm and 46mm, mounted on a larger rotor.
CTS-V front caliper piston diameters are 36mm and 40mm, mounted on a huge rotor.

Uhhh... I'm confused with your numbers. Remember, there are an extra two pistons per caliper than the stock dual piston calipers we've got. So, are you saying there are two 36mm pistons and two 40mm pisons on the CTS-v calipers? If so, then that's a total piston surface area of 152mm that the hydraulic fluid gets to act upon per caliper. Stock DPC's have 85.8mm of total piston surface area. That's almost double the surface area.

So, if I'm looking at this right...

Order of braking power potential:
EVO Brembos #1
CTS-V Brembos #2
Stock DPC's #3

BTW, where did you get your numbers from? I searched and searched and couldn't find anything!

Edit: There is also an option for 6 piston calipers. Let's see if we can get that part number!! Should bolt up the same... If they do in fact bolt up!

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[polarmoment]

Uhhh... I'm confused with your numbers. Remember, there are an extra two pistons per caliper than the stock dual piston calipers we've got.

DPCs are sliding calipers, and have the same effective piston area as 4-piston calipers.

I'm not criticizing, just asking if anyone had done the math on this. I spent a lot of time tweaking the hydraulic and mechanical bias to get it right for the BBK on my MR2, so I was wondering what the numbers were for DSMs..

Note that the EVO brakes have more front brake torque than the stock AWD brakes

They look about the same. 42.9 x 4 = 8.96 sq in.

(40 x 2) + (46 x 2) = 9.00 sq in.

There's a 0.4% difference in piston area between the GSX calipers and the EVO calipers.

The CTS-V calipers are 7.031 sq in (same piston areas as the porsche 996C4- are CTS calipers monoblock or two piece?). That's a ~22% reduction in clamping force. What's the difference in effective rotor lever arm? (hub center to halfway point of swept area)

I suppose it could be pretty close to perfect, but it's always better to know for sure, right?

 

[ApexVIII]

it would be pretty hard to believe that stock DSM 2pot calipers would be as good as CTS-V 4pot brembo calipers

i would think that the area of 14" rotors would be much better at resisting brake fade right?

 

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

it would be pretty hard to believe that stock DSM 2pot calipers would be as good as CTS-V 4pot brembo calipers
\

They're not.

The car on the right has way better brakes than the one on the left.

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[VETTE_50_TH]

Chris and I are going to be testing these in the future and doing a full test with only the ugraded 2 pot brakes on, upgraded evo rears and 2 pot fronts, CTSV front and stock rears, and CTSV and evo rears. And see how hard and can brake and how fast.

James

 

[m_0ney_pit]

I was able to confirm that the Camaro SS Brembos are also a bolt-on part. Not sure what the piston diameter of these is however. This maybe the same caliper as the cts-v.



The GXP caliper also has the 130mm bolt spacing, however they accept a 12mm mounting bolt instead of our 14mm. Theoretically they could be drilled and tapped for 14mm very easily considering they are made from aluminum. The GXP calipers i believe also have the larger pistons found on the sti,evo,g35.

Can anyone get these part numbers or specs?

 

[Gamble97]

What year camaro? What is the stock size of the dsm rotor?
Is the camaro caliper a 4piston? If it's only a 2 piston you might as well get gsx calipers.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Camaro calipers are 4 pot like the CTSV.

James

 

[Gamble97]

What year camaro's though?

 

[Sam@RRE]

Just to inform everyone, front pads for the CTS-V and EVO's are the same. So any pad that will go in an 8/9 will go into the CTS-V's caliper.