No start, no crank, more info inside.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I have a 99 Eclipse GST Spyder, all stock, automatic.

This started last week. I was doing errands to multiple places. I came back to my car from the bank and it wouldn't start. The interior lights, radio, headlights, etc would come on just fine but when I turned the key it didn't try to start.

The interior lights would dim a little but the engine didn't try to crank. I tried to get a jump start but it didn't help. There were also some dash lights on. The battery and e-brake lights I definitely remember. The oil light and "service engine soon" lights I think may have been on as well. If I pulled the e-brake the light got brighter. When I released the e-brake it stayed on, but a little dimmer. I tried starting it in both neutral and park but neither worked.

Because of my situation at the time I got a ride home and went back to my car 3ish hours later. It started up just fine. I drove it home and it started fine after that. Jump to yesterday.

I was running errands again. I went for what would be the 3rd start withing half an hour and the same thing happened. This time I payed more attention. E-brake, battery, oil, and "service engine soon" lights were all on. The electronics all seemed to work fine but the engine wouldn't crank. I could hear a click-like sound that sounds like a relay switching coming from the middle of the dash (starter relay, yes?) and what sounds like the fuel pump trying to pump. I tried both neutral and park. The interior lights dimmed but no crank.

I walked home and decided to wait a few hours and try to start it again. I waited 3 hours and walked back to it. No luck, same symptoms. I was able to get ahold of my sister and tried to jump my car but it didn't help. I called a tow truck and had it towed home. There was some blue corrosion at the base of the positive battery terminal but it was tight around the post. I checked the voltage with my Fluke and it showed 12.61 volts.

This morning before work (about 12 hours after this started) I figured I'd try it one more time. I turned the key and it weakly cranked and fired up. I drove it the 20 miles to work. While it was running the lights that were previously on turned off right away. Once it fired up, no more battery, oil, ebrake, and CES lights.

8.5 hours and a work shift later I took off the positive battery cable. The contact point to the terminal was clean. I wire brushed the blue corrosion off anyway and cleaned the contact surface just to be sure. The car fired up with no problem and I drove home without incident.

I would suspect a bad starter or a problem with the starter wires but I don't see how that would fit in with the car starting up after it sits for a few hours. I have the same thoughts about the solenoid and ignition switch. If it's a bad battery I don't see how the electronics/lights would still work fine and how it wouldn't start with a jump, something I've done several times in the past (to other vehicles). The alternator going bad shouldn't prevent a jump start, right? And the battery was sitting at 12+ volts anyway.

Looking a bit online tells me that it may be a problem with the alternator. I guess I don't understand why it could be my alternator given the battery voltage and no-go from jump starts.

Tomorrow when it's light outside, and the weekend, I can jack up the car and have ample time to tinker. Any ideas?

Thanks for reading all that.

 

[stars]

You have almost solved your problem. Very good description on your problem and the follow on of troubleshooting. You noticed when you was cranking the light's go "dim". Dim light's was the key to your answer. This is unless you have several problems of course you know already, so let's go with what you do know are the facts. Remember the purpose of a battery is to provide "reserved power" for the use from the starter. After the vehicle has "started and now running the battery is no longer needed, your alternator then provides all the useful voltage until you turn the engine "off". When you turn the key to "start" and/or "accessory" positions you are using battery voltage, remember alternator is not spinning so nothing is charging the battery until that vehicle is "running,

"Think of a battery as a depository of electricity just for the load/demand from the starter and starting circuitry. After your car has sat for a period and if the battery is weak just the smallest drain will kill the battery. Since you have an 98 and newer there is always at least 4 volt draw just from the ecu itself. Age of your battery/ the climate your in/brand name of your battery can cause numerous electrical problems that may come and go, seen it many times. Simple battery test is leave your "bright lights" on for at least 2-5 minutes. After time has passed try to start your car, if lights are "dim" or it cranks "slow" then replace that battery.

If the lights go "dim" then you know your battery has a problem. You can have battery voltage all day long but that heavy load that is needed is rated in ampres not volts. A battery has 6 cells each cell is 2.1 volts. So, technically you could have 12.6 volts and it show it is a good battery right? That is what you need to find out. Check alternator output and load test that battery. Post with your results then we go from there. You almost got it figured out, just have to isolate the problem and formulate out a next step plan.


Yes, if your battery is "dead" some cars I have seen will not start, even with a "jump start". I think it is to protect the ecu from voltage spikes so I had to replace the battery and the car will then start. I do not jump start any one...it is can cause voltage spikes, bad for alternator. Only for emergencies to I attempt to jump start.

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

Check alternator output and load test that battery. Post with your results then we go from there.

I'll go to Autozone tomorrow and have them test the battery and alternator.

I forgot to mention it but I was wondering if the battery was lacking in cold cranking amps. The car seeming to need to recharge itself a bit after multiple starts, and it being fine after my usual 30+ minute drives (aka alternator charge sessions) seems to point to a failing battery. I've just never seen a bad battery that gives out "good" voltage.

 

[GSTPR]

Check the ground that goes directly to the starter and check if it has others if it's not your battery then the starter it's not getting good voltage when cranking

 

[ktgurl87]

I would also have the battery tested. Your car does need a certain amount of "cold cranking amps" to start. If your battery is just so worn out, I have seen where not even a jump could get a car going. And oddly enough, changes in weather kill a lot of batteries. The very first cold day of winter, or the very first hot day of summer do crazy things to batteries.

 

[stars]

Well you just seen it to believe it, took me awhile to comprehend that too because you cannot see electricity and volts. You can measure it using DVOM or test light but unless it's an "arc" from something positive vs neg then chances are you will never "see" electricity, so it's hard to grasp it's concept. If you have basic "electricity" fundamental knowledge then P.M. me I will be glad to explain it to you in more detail. Basically if you understand Ohms Law then you have something to reference from. I noticed you was in Upper Part of US I know it gets kold there and when you said lighting was dim, I just knew it is your battery. You may want to see about an Marine type heavy duty battery for the Winter up there. Couldn't hurt a bit because you really need that (CCA) up there of at least 770 or more so be prepared to spend some money on a good rated battery. You are are getting lucky this year I see no hard freeze, no -30's so be thankful. Remember the heavier the battery the better, cheap batteries are lighter not so heavy feel. Supposed to be 81 degrees here Saturday, will be out washing the pollen off my 92 Tsi. Spring is already here. Stay warm my friend.

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I went to Autozone and had my battery tested. The employe said that my charging system tested fine (battery and alternator, I'm assuming) I was too focused on why the battery would test good to ask more questions. She said that the battery was holding fine at 13.i-forget volts while the engine was running. I was kinda busy today so tomorrow I'll jack up my car and check the connections to the starter.

More asking online has other people pointing to a failing starter. In any case I wont be able to buy replacement parts until this coming Friday. I hope I can get to and from work in my car until then.

Any other thoughts on how to proceed next?

 

[stars]

Of course they would say its fine with the vehicle running...its their job to "sell" you the part not "diagnose" you the part. That is BS they tell you that...and then forget to even check the starter for a "draw" test with their equipment already hooked up???? They see voltage on their meter and test is over? ...No problems found?...chicken crap diagnostics skills....and the parts they sell too along with their diagnostic experts that con you into believing that nothing is wrong with their stuff.....

They have the tools to do it yourself so I would take advantage of that if you want to save time and money and at least and focus on the starting/charging system. 3 major components can cause your problems..starter (internal short), alternator (internal short) and battery (weak/dead cell(s) inside, as you may know by now...so First...alternator is o.k. that the first thing we know for fact. Second. we know your battery although has not been accurately tested...maybe o.k.. we just have to assume that it is o.k.( i hate assuming) Third, your starter is going bad...which we do not know for a fact but because they did not complete the test...we are assuming that it is o.k...So that leaves last possibilities it can be not limited to: shorted/broken wiring, faulty relay(s), or bad connector(s)/ground broken...for that you need to wiring diagram of your vehicle.

You may have a weak battery and starter motor going bad, who knows, that's the mystery you are trying to solve. A draw test will tell where the problem is coming from if it something major like alternator, starter internally shorting out and causing battery draw.. That's the information you need to relay about your problem when you take it to anyone that has some kind of diagnostic equipment available. You may just want to save yourself some grief and pay a shop for diagnosing your problem then you can go from there and fix it yourself perhaps.

 

[CtrlAltDestroy]

I kept up with the troubleshooting and, long story short, I narrowed it down to the starter. I bought a "new" one from Autozone, swapped it, and I haven't had any problems after 6 or so starts.

I had a hell of a time getting that starter out, though. I took out the battery, battery tray, and intake tube. I located and removed the mounting bolts. I tried to wiggle the thing through the mess of hoses and cables but I couldn't get it to come to me. I struggled for a solid half an hour to get it out. Why wouldn't the dohickey come out of the whatzit so I can swap the whatchamacallit? Although the language was more colorful than that.

I jacked the car in the air and started looking from underneath. I noticed that the power cable was zip tied to the frame/support. Sigh. I snipped the zip tie and was able to change the thing out. I was so excited to have it in that after the bolts were tight I went right to start it up. I turned and fired but wouldn't stay running. Crap. Did I forget something? I returned to the engine bay and yeah. I ended up forgetting a rather large section of flexible hose that used to be clamped in. The intake being intact in kinda important. Oops.

I had one of those settings keepers 9V battery dongle thingy in the cigarette lighter to try to keep power on the radio so I wouldn't have to get the code for it. No luck. Now I need to do the research on what's the best way to get the code. I don't want to buy a new radio for it just yet because soon I'm buying another DD and retiring the Eclipse to "project car" status. At least it runs again.

 

[ktgurl87]

Glad you got 'er going again. The starters on these cars seem to come out better with two people involved. One to push from underneath and one to pull from up top. I absolutely dreaded changing the starter on the hubby's gst. That car...Oi. I actually can't stand working on it, period. But I get called quite frequently to help because of my small hands. I'm handy! But yeah, good job