Head gasket #2

Posted by chrysler kid, Aug 31, 2017

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  1. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    I recently purchased a running and driving 2g gst with lots of modifications for $1300. The owner was selling for what he thought was jumped timing, but I found to be all of the upper intercooler piping blown off. Fixed and repaired for him to witness, it idles fine and drives fine but it's eating coolant and oil and has a nice white smoke, I believe both coolant and oil (No sweet smell)

    Cylinder #3 smokes with the spark plug removed, I have verified inside the chamber the piston is coated in oil but is still intact.

    Questions

    Head was rebuilt and ARP studs and cosmetic gaskets were used. I believe the cosmetic gasket has failed from a very basic head tank. (Head is also missing every intake manifold bolt)

    Can the ARP studs be re used.

    I have an evergreen engine gasket kit. I believe a composite gasket similar to fel-pro. Should be fine correct?

    Car is a 98 gst automatic with an mhi 16g, aem wideband, and some sort of obd2 tuner I've never heard of.

    I'm really trying to be lazy, but with the intake manifold missing every bolt and only held on by the end studs, but I need to pull the head back off anyways to check for ass hattery

    For reference I am willing to do a performance part out on this car. it is my honest opinion that if I resell this car modified with a 16g and the mods the next owner will destroy it. So I want to perform a stock rebuild. Yes my daily 96 is stock, I've put 18k miles on it in 3 years with zero oil leaks and zero problems. It's what I want for this car as well (this is the only other fully intact, non wrecked, not hacked dsm I've found in Dallas in 3+ years. They are rare in the south)

    The first image is one the previous owner took when the shop or guy, did the head gasket and studs. Not sure if that zip tie cam gears is an approved method, is that acceptable? 00C0C_2KUbHAFTgo7_1200x900.jpg 20170831_131138.jpg 20170830_113839.jpg 20170830_194935.jpg 20170830_194301.jpg 01414_adNQZ8cGAqK_1200x900.jpg 00t0t_ijQdO98eIDB_1200x900.jpg

     

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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
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  2. spyderdrifter

    spyderdrifter Supporting Member

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    If you're doing the part out for real, can I call first dibs on the 16g? :D

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the ARP studs can be used a couple times after the initial 1st use, but I would check for any stretching first. The composite gasket should be good yes.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST (sold)

    Street Build

    T28   manual
    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    16g   manual
    1996 Eagle Talon N/T (sold)

      manual
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  3. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    I need to find a t25 first. At this time I can't verify it's an actual mhi turbo, the exhaust housing doesn't look correct to me, to be a period correct small 16g

    Previous owner was dropping a lot of money into the car, but I can't verify turbo until I pull the head this weekend

    f*** it, I should probably send the head out to be re done again. I don't know a single shop that would send a head back out with broken studs still in them 20170830_112803.jpg 20170830_194201.jpg 20170830_194104.jpg 20170830_113850.jpg 20170830_111528.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
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  4. livedsm4g63

    livedsm4g63 Proven Member

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    Auburn Hills, Michigan
    Ive reused arp's multiple times and so have many others. Just ensure the mating surfaces are flat so no leaking occurs again.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    11.495 @ 124.750 MPH
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  5. zedicus

    zedicus Proven Member

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    Garden city, Kansas
    Best Answer
    that pic shows an MLS headgasket, and i would bet you .25 BTC that the motor was not correctly checked and machined for an MLS headgasket. so that is simply why you are pushing coolant and oil. fix is pud, pull head and check it for something vaguely resembling flatness, then install a regular composite gasket and retorque the headstuds after a few hundred miles of driving. done and fixed.

    you cant check timing with out at least pulling the timing cover, and the only way you can do the ziptie trick is if you have the little cam gear tooth lock that the vendors sale. so you need to pull the timing cover and check timing when you put the composite headgasket on.

    check for other crap work done but after that you should have a good car. a turbo DSM of any configuration is like a hens tooth or golden egg up here too. so just spend the weekend to fix it and keep it, or sale it after it has been fixed right, it will be worth more that way.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  6. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Those were my exact thoughts. In reading reviews of the cosmetic gaskets every one is saying they are awesome, *if* you resurface the block and head. If not they are terrible.

    You're preaching to me, I've got all the special tools ever needed for a dsm, and a free engine gasket set from an old school dsmer who left the dsm world.

    It's time to tear down and do it by the book and do it right

    20170901_174435.jpg 20170901_173309.jpg
     
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  7. PlanZero

    PlanZero Proven Member

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    Easton, Pennsylvania
    If you're doing a stock rebuild don't bother with cometic or mls, go with fel pro or victor reinz composite. Assuming the studs were only used once you can definitely reuse em. You have the much sought after split thrust 7 bolt with a black box/tactrix/evo scan ready to tune; although I always appreciate a stock rebuild I personally would definitely utilize those advantages of the 98-99 and put at least a s16g or e16g and some Evo 560s and Evo X fuel pump since you already have an easy way to tune.. Cheap reliable improvement/ upgrade over the t2 small.
     
    My DSM:
    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST (sold)

    Street Build

    T25   automatic
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    16g   automatic
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   automatic
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  8. zedicus

    zedicus Proven Member

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    studs can be re-used infinitely. unless you bash the threads or damage them in some way. and the only non OEM composite gasket i feel good using is the felpro. but i have seen other people use other composite gaskets and have good luck.

    good luck on the rebuild, it is always nice to see a dsm get fixed, instead of parted or scrapped.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  9. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Yeah that's everything I've been reading about as well. I will probably also do a light coating of copper gasket spray, and then let everything cure overnight before adding fluid and starting.

    If you can't tell by my join date, I'm old to the dsm world, and this car is covered in stickers, purple stuff, and holes drilled in the fenders for bumper fasteners, so I'm a bit old school in my ways compared to these kids.


    Car already has a walbro 255, an fpr, fic 750 injectors and an aem wideband. I definitely appreciate the info, I'm in the dark on the black box ecu's and tuning since all of my other dsms were 1996 models.

    I believe I will be going for a red/black engine theme. I may also repaint the engine bay white as it is a bit dingy and scratched

    I believe this is an eBay 16g, previous owner swears it's a real mhi turbo, again I'm not familiar with the companies that sell these. I can tell it's not a real evo3 turbo because of the missing stampings on the compressor housing, and the 3 bolt waste gate (and it's also new looking and shiny). Seems to be in great shape with no shaft play though

    20170902_190700.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
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  10. TexasHavoc

    TexasHavoc Proven Member

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    Looks clean man! Yeah they are def hard to come by. Im about a hr north of houston and ive been looking for another clean gst or gsx for a decent price and not completely ran into the ground
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Street Build

    20g   manual
    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST (sold)

    16g   manual
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  11. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    Ebay.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  12. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    The turbo? Yeah looks like it to me.

    Yeah this is only the third "complete" vehicle with a 4g63 I've seen lately. Most cars are not in anywhere close to running condition and are missing major components

    I should have this one finished next week. It's automatic but it's a good car

    Old timing belt tensioner, zero signs of adjustment to the tensioner pulley. 20170903_171051.jpg 20170903_170922.jpg 20170903_170839.jpg 20170902_180506.jpg
    20170903_172926.jpg
     
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  13. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

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    Throw that evergreen auto sh** in the trash.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
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  14. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Mckinney, Texas
    Yeah....they all seem like paper gaskets. The only one I really plan to use is the head gasket.


    Ok so the head studs, half of them came out when I loosened the nuts. I'm not sure if that is typical or not

    The fic injector gaskets are trashed. Not sure if he ordered the wrong ones but they are way too big for the intake

    All of the top intake bolts missing like expected. Exhaust studs and turbo studs were not torqued correctly

    I can't find any defects in the cosmetic gasket, but I did find defects in the cylinder head. I believe it was a gasket slap, the head left some pretty serious gouging in the gasket from either improper torquing or uneven surface.

    Again any advice or tips welcomed on what you see. I mean this cylinder head looks like sh** to me, but it's the first one I've ever looked at in detail

    20170903_220729.jpg 20170903_220750.jpg 20170903_220949.jpg 20170903_221300.jpg 20170903_223426.jpg 20170903_225030.jpg
     
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  15. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

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    That evergreen head gasket is junk. A $26 felpro has been proven to like 700whp.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
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  16. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Affirmative. I will purchase fel pro gasket tomorrow.

    Also can anyone explain why the cosmetic has the coolant passages in the head blocked off? One of the passages was so bad with electrolosys I had to use a paper clip and rust neutralizer to open it back up again.

    For some reason those passages are blocked by the cosmetic gasket?

    20170904_194506.jpg

    And the broken stud

    20170904_163419.jpg

    And a light polish and clean

    20170904_170636.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  17. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Definitely throw that Evergreen head gasket away and use an actual FelPro gasket. Everything in the Evergreen kit is great with the exception of the head gasket and valve cover gasket- I installed one of these kits in a customer car against my better judgement one time because he was on a tight budget and it didn't last the ride home before blowing between 2&3 on a perfect head- so maybe 50 miles or so. The valve cover gasket will be hard as a brick and leaking before the first oil change.

    Best thing you can do is forget the Evergreen gaskets altogether and buy a FelPro HS9627PT3 set so you won't be buying some of the gaskets twice.
     
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  18. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Yeah I was reading up on the evergreen head gasket and saw your post so I put it back in the shrink wrap and put it back in the far corner of my parts bin in case the zombie apocalypse and I need one in an emergency.

    Fel-pro came in, painting the valve covers and intercooler piping wrinkle black today

    The fic injector gaskets fell apart in my hands so have to figure out replacements for those.
     
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  19. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

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    One of those gaskets is not like the other...
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
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  20. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Name for me this gasket. I don't want to goober it with rtv like the previous owner did

    20170905_221922.jpg


    Black wrinkle theme

    20170906_000808.jpg
    20170906_000751.jpg
     
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  21. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

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    The name of that gasket is "dealer only" afaik - unless you buy a whole gasket set. Either order one, or get some gasket paper and cut one out. Use Karopak.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
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  22. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 20, 2002
    Mckinney, Texas
    Oh my goodness. previous owner put an evo8 head gasket on his car.

    He also ordered the wrong injectors seals

    Screenshot_20170906-024803.png

    Notice
    Screenshot_20170906-013921.png

    And installed on my 7 bolt

    00C0C_2KUbHAFTgo7_1200x900.jpg


    And compared to the actual 7 bolt h3ad gasket

    20170904_194506.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
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  23. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Mckinney, Texas
    I found the gasket and the o ring (for the water pump tube) on extreme psi. I spent about $80 on a bunch of random pieces last night. They don't sell just one exhaust stud unfortunately.

    Water pump tube o ring $3
    Thermostat housing gasket to head $2
    Exhaust manifold stud kit $28
    8x intake manifold bolts @ .86 each
    Alternator tensioner bolt $6
    Fic fuel injector o rings @ $20 a set

    Add to that $28 fel pro head gasket
    Intake man gasket $11
    3x can of spray paint $24
    Oil change to vr1 oil $36
    Misc gaskets (free evergreen kit)
    Changing timing belt and balance shaft belt (free contitech brand left from last build)

    I'm not too deep in the parts hole yet.

    Guesses on clean retail when I'm done? Thinking $5k price range. Zero rust Texas car no hail damage with one dent
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
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  24. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Mckinney, Texas
    Waiting on my gasket shipment from extreme psi.

    20170907_204903.jpg 20170907_204850.jpg
     
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  25. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Houston, Texas
    You wouldn't be the only one who bought a car with the wrong head gasket

    IMG_0333.JPG
     
    My DSM:
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    16g   manual
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