Tubular Manifold Build

[Bud92gsx]

This Morning I started my last class I will be attending at Wyotech before graduation!!The class is 3 months so I have some time to do this. Well the school took the high performance engines away from us so now it's just chassis fab. Well we finally get to weld, I've been jones-ing to get back to welding. I used to weld for Cummins now I'm in school. So for a project I would like to build a tubular manifold, and since theres no high performance, I don't get to be tought this sh**.........So I was wondering if anyone knew how to make one and what I have to do!!! I know some of you have built them but I thought I would ask everyone!!! Thank you in advance everybody

 

[gixrman]

I would have to say it was the hardest thing I've fab'd for my car to date. Getting the clearance and pipe locations to meet up was my biggest PITA. Would have been easier if I did'nt make a split pulse manifold. Here a link to some pics of my setup.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-holset-turbos-part-3-a-13.html#post151436796

 

[Bud92gsx]

I see I see..so how do i go about making the measurements and soo forth? does the tubes have to be equal length? I'm also going to have to brace it to hold the weight of the turbo and exhaust.. Ohh and nice work on the mig on your manifold. You need to practice welding some more, no offense bro.

 

[gixrman]

Mine are not equal lenght since I did the 1-4 2-3 setup and after about 2 weeks of trying to get everything to match up I really did'nt giva a shit. This was my first time trying this thats why I made it out of mild steel, so yeah I need some practice, I've only been welding about a year. Don't knock it till you try it. Do a search theres another post were a SS manifold was built.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I think I read that when I was thinking about the build. We are still in the classroom, so i'm still in the design and thinking about it stage. I'm gonna do the project either way. I am also going to probly use aluminized steel, cause it'll stay 400 degrees cooler than most other metals. I don't want to get too hot since most driving will be in town, and one cross country trip if I can't get a semi to take my car back to Wisconsin. Welding will all be done with a tig, much better looking and holds soo much better. For your next header learn how to tig.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

The simplest way to look at this is, decide where you want your turbo to sit. Jig your collector flange to that location. The start looking into how you want the bends to run. And don't forget wastegate placement. I'd personally go with stainless, as that's what I'm using for my manifold. Make sure to but butt weld bends and get some thick gauge metal. FWIW, I'm using Sch.10 butt weld bends for mine.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Ok so I'm thinking M21 stainless or 310 stainless. Most aftermarket manifolds are made from 304 stainless. The diameter...right now thinking 1.5 inch, with a wall of .050 or so. M21 withstands temps of 900 degrees, and the 310 holds up to 1100 degrees, 304 is really only good for temps up to 500. For the flanges...1/2 inch M21 or 310. Making the templates with gaskets. Not sure if going to keep the stock placement, but will brace either way.

 

[turboglenn]

Here's a great link with step by step instructions. I use to sell install this brand of EMS, but for what you getthey have gotten way too pricey in the last 8 years. Now i would rather buy/sell/install megasquirts over them, but they have one hell of a tech page on building stuff
Tech Page
Good luck and keep us updated

 

[Bud92gsx]

Ya I know about that.. Mr. Peepers is a freind of mine he told me to check it out. Ohh and I seen your posts on there. But thanks for the help man! And here's the update....Wyotech cannot even get ahold of M21 satinless...Yeah nice. So My teacher gives seminars on headers, and told me to call this place in Denver..They would probly have some, but it's probly going to be expensive. He also gave me an idea of using mild steel for the manifold, and get it ceramic coated. Now theres one problem with that. Ceramic coating is going to be expensive, even on a 4cyl application. So Back to using the M21 stainless. M21 is rather expensive alone, but I would not have to get them coated unless I felt like getting them coated.

 

[turboglenn]

You could always make the prototype from the stuff in that link i put up earlier, then if it tuns out right and you like it, you will know exactly how much of each bend and how much and what shape flat stock to get.. This will at least save you some money on SS since the first one will be more of an experiment, you could also use it to make a jig and from there produce a few for your friends or members on here after some good R&D (beating the piss out of the one on your car that is)

 

[tkelly27]

A good fixture (jig can be a very offensive term depending on the area of the country you are in...) can be very useful. They can be easy to make as well. If you wanted this piece to locate the turbo in the stock location, bolt a stock manifold to two peices of plywood, attach the two pieces of plywood, remove the manifold and there's your fixture. If you want it some other place, measure and do something similar.

I second the sch40 stuff. Cheap, easy to find, and very strong. You can even pick up straight sections from home depot if you have to.

You might consider a heat shield instead of expensive SS or ceramic coatings.

 

[Bud92gsx]

A good fixture (jig can be a very offensive term depending on the area of the country you are in...) can be very useful. They can be easy to make as well. If you wanted this piece to locate the turbo in the stock location, bolt a stock manifold to two peices of plywood, attach the two pieces of plywood, remove the manifold and there's your fixture. If you want it some other place, measure and do something similar.

I second the sch40 stuff. Cheap, easy to find, and very strong. You can even pick up straight sections from home depot if you have to.

You might consider a heat shield instead of expensive SS or ceramic coatings.

I was thinking making the jig from steel cheap mild steel. But plywood would be alot less costly. On the other hand...no.. steel. The ceramic coating was not for underhood temps at all, well kinda on the M21 SS. Ceramic coating would definatly be used if I was to use a mild steel for final product. The coating on the mild steel was to resist cracking. As for a heat shield. Most likely will use either way, but on cheaper sch40 or whatever Would have to be coated.

 

[Bud92gsx]

You could always make the prototype from the stuff in that link i put up earlier, then if it tuns out right and you like it, you will know exactly how much of each bend and how much and what shape flat stock to get.. This will at least save you some money on SS since the first one will be more of an experiment, you could also use it to make a jig and from there produce a few for your friends or members on here after some good R&D (beating the piss out of the one on your car that is)[/QUOTE

Yes exactly. Will sure and do some R&D, and let you know what my finds are. Maybe even make a few more....IDK. But will keep you posted 4 Sho. Ill take off my manifold maybe this weekend maybe.

 

[KDub]

I used to work for full race and for the minimal amount of time ive worked there ive learned a lot. use schedule 10 ss. we used to use sch. 40 but switched to sch. 10 as its much MUCH better. 1.25'' dia will be a lot easier to work with as 1.50'' will be harder to work with because obviously its bigger. i dont know what turbo youre using but 1.25 will give you quicker spool and 1.50 will be a bit more laggy. i can go into a whole book about this so ill just leave it up to you to ask questions. feel free to pm me.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Well for a turbo I'm using a smal 16G. The build is only to make spool time go down. I cant deal with the 3200-3500rpm spool. My teacher worked for Rousch for 14 years, so between the two of you I think this will be a great build. The exhuast ports are 1.5 aren't they? But if 1.25 will make spool time go down, I"ll definatly consider. Thank you...

 

[Bud92gsx]

So here's the deal. I'm going to make the jig and the manifold out of mild steel. Now, when i want to use the manifold I will have it ceramic coated before instalation. When I get home I will be producing a couple of these for those that would like one. Within the next five weeks I will have finished product pics and so forth.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Well for a turbo I'm using a smal 16G. The build is only to make spool time go down. I cant deal with the 3200-3500rpm spool. My teacher worked for Rousch for 14 years, so between the two of you I think this will be a great build. The exhuast ports are 1.5 aren't they? But if 1.25 will make spool time go down, I"ll definatly consider. Thank you...

A tubular manifold will most likely make the turbo spool later due to the longer runners. If you want to do something creative, find a stock EVO X turbine housing. It's clockwise rotation, made for a TD05H wheel, and twin scroll. Make a proper divided manifold for it and say hello to insta-boost.

 

[gixrman]

Why build a manifold for a 16g? just about everyone has one in some form or another, its a small turbo and like steve stated your not going to see any vast improvement over the cast manifold.

 

[Bud92gsx]

A tubular manifold will most likely make the turbo spool later due to the longer runners. If you want to do something creative, find a stock EVO X turbine housing. It's clockwise rotation, made for a TD05H wheel, and twin scroll. Make a proper divided manifold for it and say hello to insta-boost.

That is not a bad idea, But I'm going to need more info on using an EVO X turbine housing please. I'm not understanding it quite just yet.
I thought that since our intake is on the opposite side, we can't use anything above EVO 3, because of the twin scroll? And If using anything above EVO 3 we would have to relocate our alternator or something of that nature. My small 16G is basically brand new, it only has maybe a couple of hundred miles on it. Why would I want to rip it apart and put new housing on it when I would have to have it all balaced and rebuilt? When I just had that done?

 

[Bud92gsx]

Why build a manifold for a 16g? just about everyone has one in some form or another, its a small turbo and like steve stated your not going to see any vast improvement over the cast manifold.

I do happen to know a couple of folks that run tubular manifolds, and they noticed alot of improved spool and more top end as well. Now if I was to get an EVO manifold or just a 2G and port it. The results would be somewhere around the same you would think. Also this is a project for class, and someday I was hoping to get into this kind of work. It's basically a learning experience for myself. I will probly not run this kind of manifold if I decide to make it a street car when I graduate. Then I will get EVO manifold and only us DSMers will know the truth. But thank you for the concern guy I really appreciate it.