Road racing pavement pulverizer, whats best to go with?

[tstkl]

so I've done quite a few bolt on mods, and Im getting ready to change turbos. I really want to road race this car, but for now I'm more focused on drag racing (its SOOO much cheaper).

Here are a few set ups I'm thinking about:

#1 a 2.0 with a 10k rev limiter and 9:1 compression pistons pushing a fp3065. The high revs will let me stay in low gears and put down some decent torque to the ground while still letting me put down great numbers at the track, and spool won't be too bad, especially if I ride it into high rpms around the track. Great dyno numbers.

#2 a 2.3 with a fp3565, 9:1 compression pistons, and an 8k rev limit. Gobs of low end torque with less spool time than the 2.0, great for the track, but the dyno numbers will greatly suffer.

#3 a destroked 2.1L reving to 11k on a full ball bearing t67 (does anyone make these?). This would be an insane drag strip set up, and I don't think it would perform well at the track.

My questions are, which options would be the best for my situation, and does anyone have experience with similar set ups? Will the gt40 compressor wheel start to run out of breath at those high rpms? is the t67 wheel needed to reach 11k?

I really, REALLY don't know what to do, I'm open to all options, and I'd like to hear what some people who have run these turbos think. I know greg is on the fp3052 on his 2.3 block reving to like 7200 or something like that, but this car won't be a full on track car like his. And I'm feeling option #1 as of right now, since it would be the cheapest build of the three. The destroked would be quite steep.

(and don't think Im trying to go about this with as little cash as possible, its just that with option one I could break it up into stages and do it step by step, rather than having to do everything all at once.)

 

[GVR4592]

so I've done quite a few bolt on mods, and Im getting ready to change turbos. I really want to road race this car, but for now I'm more focused on drag racing (its SOOO much cheaper).

Here are a few set ups I'm thinking about:

#1 a 2.0 with a 10k rev limiter and 9:1 compression pistons pushing a fp3065. The high revs will let me stay in low gears and put down some decent torque to the ground while still letting me put down great numbers at the track, and spool won't be too bad, especially if I ride it into high rpms around the track. Great dyno numbers.

#2 a 2.3 with a fp3565, 9:1 compression pistons, and an 8k rev limit. Gobs of low end torque with less spool time than the 2.0, great for the track, but the dyno numbers will greatly suffer.

#3 a destroked 2.1L reving to 11k on a full ball bearing t67 (does anyone make these?). This would be an insane drag strip set up, and I don't think it would perform well at the track.

My questions are, which options would be the best for my situation, and does anyone have experience with similar set ups? Will the gt40 compressor wheel start to run out of breath at those high rpms? is the t67 wheel needed to reach 11k?

I really, REALLY don't know what to do, I'm open to all options, and I'd like to hear what some people who have run these turbos think. I know greg is on the fp3052 on his 2.3 block reving to like 7200 or something like that, but this car won't be a full on track car like his. And I'm feeling option #1 as of right now, since it would be the cheapest build of the three. The destroked would be quite steep.

(and don't think Im trying to go about this with as little cash as possible, its just that with option one I could break it up into stages and do it step by step, rather than having to do everything all at once.)

I think #1 sounds good. I'm not a fan of the 2.1, it's really not going to do anything that the 2.0 won't. The bottom end might have the ability to rev higher, but that isn't even the limiting factor with the 2.0, it's the valvetrain that causes the problems. There are a few guys on here using a T67 with the 2.3 and making 650+whp, with a pretty decent spool. PTE makes ball bearing T67's.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

The 2.0 is your best option, but I would only run 8.5:1 compression and a 8k rev limit. Your stressing everything out way too much, especially for road racing. 3/4th gear are plenty long, you definitely dont need 9 grand and 9 compression, youll probably end up blowing the engine and its costly. Plus you seriously do not need a lot of horsepower, yes with that combination youll lose maybe 50 horsepower at most, but youll learn quickly, you dont need horsepower to go fast.

 

[Dark_Horse]

Number one sounds to me like your best bet, except for reving to 10K. Even with dual valve springs etc, that's just asking for trouble. Plus, running a 3065 to 10,000rpm is worthless since will be gasping for air at 10Krpm anyway...You could have shifted sooner and gone faster.

I'd also ditch the 3065 since you can get a GT35R much cheaper.

1. GT35R with 0.82A/R
2. FP2x cams, maybe even FP3x cams.
3. Supertech dual valve springs
4. 8.5:1 pistons

 

[tstkl]

Your stressing everything out way too much,

I tend to do that a lot, your probably right too.

Number one sounds to me like your best bet, except for reving to 10K. Even with dual valve springs etc, that's just asking for trouble. Plus, running a 3065 to 10,000rpm is worthless since will be gasping for air at 10Krpm anyway...You could have shifted sooner and gone faster.

thats why I was asking about the t67, the gt40 compressor wheel might choke and die with a high reving 2.0. And the reason I don't want to go with the gt35r is that the compressor flows 52 lbs/min and since this car is going to be a strip/track car, I'll want more flow for the drag strip. Evil_Eagle said the 3065 is perfectly streetable, so Im guessing that it shouldn't bring me down too badly on a track car.

As for the rev limit, 10k probably is too high, but I would want the limiter set to at least 8.5k. If I were to keep it as low as 8k, I might as well go with a 2.3

And higher compression pistons will help with spool and off boost response, so running a lower boost with higher compression seems like it would be helpful at the track where there aren't as many straight aways.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

It's hard to build a car for both...for the road racing side of things, tracks vary greatly in size and speed, and that affects what kind of spool time you need. If there's a certain local road course that you plan on running on, honestly I would just go out there right now with your current setup and see how the track feels, and the car feels. Maybe you could get a ride in a car and try to imagine going around in yours, paying attention to corner entry and exit speeds, and trying to see which gear and which RPM you'll be at thru the corners and on the exit.

Some courses are tight with difficult corner speeds that, for example, are too fast for 2nd gear but too slow for 3rd gear. If you went thru in 3rd, you might not spool up quick enough on exit, but if you went in 2nd, you might run out of gear well before you can shift into 3rd. Based on how it feels out there you can decide how quick of a spool you need. Obviously the larger the track in general, the larger the turbo you can get away with.

Also, remember that road racing is much harder on a car than drag racing. Doing 150-200 miles of 10/10ths driving, WOT 80% of the time, revving to your shift point many times per lap, puts a lot of stress on things. You have to choose your parts based on that. You'll want a FMIC that doesn't block a lot of flow, or a huge SMIC. A tubular manifold (unless wrapped) will really cook everything under the hood from those long track sessions; a hood vent is very helpful. Your water and oil temps will get up there, you'll need to upgrade to better coolers for both.

You probably knew a lot of this already but I thought I should mention it. Hope it helps.

 

[Dark_Horse]

And the reason I don't want to go with the gt35r is that the compressor flows 52 lbs/min and since this car is going to be a strip/track car, I'll want more flow for the drag strip.

A 35R will flow about 65lbs/min based on DSMlink logs. The 600+whp dyno numbers some members are putting down on a 35R confirm this.

 

[brute]

All those seem huge for autocross turbos... Don't rev your engine very much higher than stock, unless you want it to have a short life. I'd say GT30R. Even a FP 3052 would be good.

 

[slugsgomoo]

i'd run a 2.4 longrod with the magnus ross/pauter combo, an FP3052, a giant oil cooler, a decent fmic that doesn't block too much air, maybe a tranny cooler and start there.

Yeah you might "only" make 400-500 horsepower, but the 3052 is not a slouch at the strip, even in a full weight car. Many cars in the low elevens/mid tens on race gas, and a bunch in the upper elevens on pump.