Big16G Dyno sheet

[JoeyGST]

I dynoed my car today. The results I got were not too
thrilling, but I wasn't too disappointed either.

249.1 HP, 232.9 ft-lbs torque

I'm not sure what is "normal" for a Big16G. What do you guys
think? Am I putting out the right amount of power?

My car:
1999 Mitsu Eclipse GS-T

My Mods:
Ported Big16G from FP, HRC FMIC, 550cc inj, 190 walbro, AVC-R
boost controller, Full 2.5 exhaust with a full size Carsound
catalytic converter (to pass Smog here in CA), Injen intake.

Conditions:
17psi on crappy Californian 91 octane pump gas, approx 90 degree
weather.

S-AFC Settings:
1000RPM -6
2000RPM -8
3000RPM -12
4000RPM -15
5000RPM -21
5500RPM -23
6000RPM -22
7000RPM -28

-JoeyGST

 

[NewB2dsm]

i think you need to lean out your 2.5 - 3.5 some and maybe add some fuel in up top. That dyno gets funny up top. Mine was alot more smooth than yours (other post) and similar numbers. Thats just me also what boost are you running?

 

[QuickerDSM]

I don't think that looks too bad. The crap gas and the heat def. take their toll. Did they at least have a huge fan on the front of the intercooler for ya? Overall I think those are respectable numbers.

Mike

 

[JoeyGST]

NewB2DSM: I was running 17psi. Running 15psi, I netted about
242hp. I thought there would be a huge difference switching to 17,
but apparently not. I must be knocking or something.

As for leaning out the low end, it's already pretty lean. Look at the
wideband graph. The top end is running rich as is.

QuickerDSM: They had a giant fan blowing air to my FMIC and my hood
was up. The FMIC felt cool run after run, but the car was obviously
heated. Turning it off and letting it cool off for 5 min, then spinning the
rollers again gained me about 5-10hp difference.

DSM's are so hard to tune. I saw the highest HP numbers leaning out
S-AFC to get close to .92 across. The timing was so variable every
run though.

-JoeyGST

 

[zac83]

not bad numbers for a car with a cat on it. what kind of down-pipe are you running? I would recomend looking into a fuel pressure regulator and some tuning. Turn that fuel pressure down and increase pulsewidth in the bottom and keep the top end about the same: that would lean out your top and keep your bottom end about the same as far as air/fuel. it seems like your getting alot of rich mis up in the top end. What kind of timing numbers were you seeing at 17 PSI? I'm really surprised that 190 LPH pump was able to deliver a RICH mixture up in the top end of that car...

one note: a car with a cat is going to be out of whack on a wideband...

 

[NewB2dsm]

sorry im not too good with the a/f graphs on which way is lean / rich but i know what 11:1 or 12:1 is a nice spot to be. I just look at the top end b/c of the spiking like that, you could be knocking like you said and getting some timing retard. Maybe get a logger or borrow one if possible and find out.

 

[kpt4321]

It looks a little lean from 3k to 4k, but otherwise it's not bad. For 17 psi, that isn't horrible. You could do better, but that's not awful.


....Kyle T.

 

[JoeyGST]

Originally posted by zac83
not bad numbers for a car with a cat on it. what kind of down-pipe are you running? I would recomend looking into a fuel pressure regulator and some tuning. Turn that fuel pressure down and increase pulsewidth in the bottom and keep the top end about the same: that would lean out your top and keep your bottom end about the same as far as air/fuel. it seems like your getting alot of rich mis up in the top end. What kind of timing numbers were you seeing at 17 PSI? I'm really surprised that 190 LPH pump was able to deliver a RICH mixture up in the top end of that car...

one note: a car with a cat is going to be out of whack on a wideband...

I have a 2.5 RS-R downpipe, the ones that Road Race used to sell
2-3 years ago. I'll bet I'll gain 5-10hp just from swapping to a testpipe,
but I want to maintain streetability. I used to run a testpipe on the
street, and I really got tired of the fumes, all the blowby at stops.

As for wideband going whack with a cat...my pocketlogger also showed
the top end running rich, I was logging .98, and then .94 when I leaned
it out a lot. Look at my S-AFC settings up top.

I have no idea why my car is running so rich up top. When I had the
stock SMIC and 14b on my car, it didn't run that rich at all. I ran
13.7 @ 105mph with the 14b and stock SMIC, and I had o2's at .92
all the way. Now my o2's sit around .94 up top, and I have S-AFC
leaned out even more than I did with the 14b. I dunno what's up.

-JoeyGST

 

[kpt4321]

11:1 is really not that rich. On pump gas, you don't want it a whole ton leaner than that.

The 13:1 or whatever it is around 4k, is too lean.

A/F ratio does not have nearly as large an effect on power as timing does.


....Kyle T.

 

[Generation X]

I think those are good numbers for just a measely 17 psi. 17 psi isn't nothing on a FP Big16g. You definitely could squeeze out another 10 to 15 hp buy swapping out your cat for a race-pipe. The heat and 91 owl piss you guys get in Cali doesn't help matters either. I run 20 to 21 psi on my FP ported Big28 daily, depending on heat and humidity, and on 93 octane. I say crank the boost up a little more.

 

[Buckkkaaaaa!!!]

nice joey

 

[13secGST]

hey...Joey...check out my dyno graph

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73876&highlight=lots+of+parts+doesnt

I have similar mods, but at the time I had HORRIBLE timing...it would drop to -3 and advance to 8 durring the dyno, I had stock injectors, and I didn't have DSMLink yet...actually just read my post...you'll see...

Today I'm gonna start tuning with my DSMlink and I'll come back and post how ever much it says I'm making.

But yeh...I think you should be making more power...you probably are getting bad knock somehow...and like somebody else here said, timing is what you really want for power...a/f ratio is important too...but timing is huge.

 

[JoeyGST]

Originally posted by 13secGST
hey...Joey...check out my dyno graph

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73876&highlight=lots+of+parts+doesnt

I have similar mods, but at the time I had HORRIBLE timing...it would drop to -3 and advance to 8 durring the dyno, I had stock injectors, and I didn't have DSMLink yet...actually just read my post...you'll see...

Today I'm gonna start tuning with my DSMlink and I'll come back and post how ever much it says I'm making.

But yeh...I think you should be making more power...you probably are getting bad knock somehow...and like somebody else here said, timing is what you really want for power...a/f ratio is important too...but timing is huge.

You had bad timing most probably due to the stock 450cc injectors.
The bigger injectors you get, the better timing. People are telling me
to ditch the 550cc's now and go for 660's for better timing.

Timing is very important, but after spending countless hours fiddling
with my S-AFC settings and reading my pocketlogs, I realized that
the 2g ECU is super whack. I get good timing curves on one run, and
then on a second run right after, I get a messed up curve. There was
no change in settings. 2G ECU just decides to pull timing at random
it seems. That's why I gave up on the pocketlogging and trying to
tune for a smooth timing curve, cuz the only time I got a smooth one
was running pig rich and very slow. I found that tuning towards .92 o2
is the best way to go, because your timing varies so much anyways.

If I have time, and if I can find a cheaper dyno place, I'll try testpipe
and race gas. I should net a lot more hp. But the point is, I want good
hp for the road, i.e. with a cat and 91 pump. People are telling me the
only way to do that is with a huge turbo and 660cc's. I don't want any
more lag or costs, so I'm fine with what I have now.

Let us know your results with DSMlink, I hear nothing but rave reviews.

-JoeyGST

 

[Satori]

I have to wonder if you might be better off with a standalone ECU over the piggy-back unit.

 

[99GST]

Originally posted by Satori
I have to wonder if you might be better off with a standalone ECU over the piggy-back unit.

You are correct about that. If he plans on going with 660's then you will want to bump up to a standalone. SAFC+660's+Stock ECU = very difficult time tuning.

 

[Generation X]

Originally posted by JoeyGST


You had bad timing most probably due to the stock 450cc injectors.
The bigger injectors you get, the better timing. People are telling me
to ditch the 550cc's now and go for 660's for better timing.

Timing is very important, but after spending countless hours fiddling
with my S-AFC settings and reading my pocketlogs, I realized that
the 2g ECU is super whack. I get good timing curves on one run, and
then on a second run right after, I get a messed up curve. There was
no change in settings. 2G ECU just decides to pull timing at random
it seems. That's why I gave up on the pocketlogging and trying to
tune for a smooth timing curve, cuz the only time I got a smooth one
was running pig rich and very slow. I found that tuning towards .92 o2
is the best way to go, because your timing varies so much anyways.

If I have time, and if I can find a cheaper dyno place, I'll try testpipe
and race gas. I should net a lot more hp. But the point is, I want good
hp for the road, i.e. with a cat and 91 pump. People are telling me the
only way to do that is with a huge turbo and 660cc's. I don't want any
more lag or costs, so I'm fine with what I have now.

Let us know your results with DSMlink, I hear nothing but rave reviews.

-JoeyGST

True... going with bigger injectors such as 625's or 660's over 550's will help in the timing department. You can hide more air that way. 2G's are very finicky when it comes to timing, that is well known. I myself plan on swapping out my 550's with HRC 625's or Denso 660's. The only down side that you might POSSIBLY have with going to bigger injectors is a rougher idle. Good luck!!

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by JoeyGST


That's why I gave up on the pocketlogging and trying to
tune for a smooth timing curve, cuz the only time I got a smooth one
was running pig rich and very slow. I found that tuning towards .92 o2
is the best way to go, because your timing varies so much anyways.

-JoeyGST

When you have your car on the dyno, tune it once at .92 and tune it again for a smooth timing rise to about 20 degrees. I promise you, you will make more power tuning the car for that timing. Do not pay attention to the 2g O2 numbers on the pocketlogger. When I was last at the dyno, my pocketlogger numbers were between .98-1.00v even though the tail pipe sniffer measured 12.5 a/f aratio on the dyno. I made 395 HP on 22 PSI with my setup and I'm sure would have made less if I leaned it out that much just to get it to .92v.

 

[JoeyGST]

Originally posted by Mike 99GSX


When you have your car on the dyno, tune it once at .92 and tune it again for a smooth timing rise to about 20 degrees. I promise you, you will make more power tuning the car for that timing. Do not pay attention to the 2g O2 numbers on the pocketlogger. When I was last at the dyno, my pocketlogger numbers were between .98-1.00v even though the tail pipe sniffer measured 12.5 a/f aratio on the dyno. I made 395 HP on 22 PSI with my setup and I'm sure would have made less if I leaned it out that much just to get it to .92v.

The only time I get real smooth timing curve and lots of timing is when I run it pig rich.

Also, even if I get a relatively smooth curve at night, during the day, my timing gets pulled all over. So it all depends on temperature outside. That's why it's hard to tune for a consistant curve. I'll try to tune for a smooth curve at night, but it takes a lot of time, I sometimes just don't even wanna bother with it. I think overall tuning towards .92 o2's is the best way to go.

-Joey

 

[Mike 99GSX]

What I'm trying to tell you is that what you perceive as "pig rich" may not be that. Like I said, I saw .98 on my pocketlogger and the wideband said 12.5. 12.5 is far from pig rich and is too lean for pump gas for almost anyone's comfort. Believe the pocketlogger if you want but I'm speaking from dyno/wideband experience. The 2g ECU can not be trusted. Just go to a dyno and try it both ways and see what happens

 

[JoeyGST]

Originally posted by Mike 99GSX
What I'm trying to tell you is that what you perceive as "pig rich" may not be that. Like I said, I saw .98 on my pocketlogger and the wideband said 12.5. 12.5 is far from pig rich and is too lean for pump gas for almost anyone's comfort. Believe the pocketlogger if you want but I'm speaking from dyno/wideband experience. The 2g ECU can not be trusted. Just go to a dyno and try it both ways and see what happens

Yeah, I understand that the pocketlogger can't be trusted. I too saw
.96 to .98 on the pocketlogger when wideband read 12.

I spent countless hours going out late at night to find deserted streets to
tune on. I was just trying to tune for that smooth timing curve on the
pocketlogger at first, but I got no where. Dyno tuning with wideband
yielded much better results, and it only took an hour.

I'll continue to check my timing and fiddle with my settings when I have
time, but I think the best bang for the buck is to dyno tune first.

-Joey

 

[hostile]

Originally posted by 99GST


You are correct about that. If he plans on going with 660's then you will want to bump up to a standalone. SAFC+660's+Stock ECU = very difficult time tuning.

DSMlink would be the best choice, unless you already run 11's a stand alone is way over your head.

 

[eagletalontsi]

Those numbers seem pretty low for a big 16g at 17psi with a front mount. My 1g with a small 16g with similar mods and a stock side mount intercooloer put down 283hp on pump @18psi you need someone to tune your car that really knows what there doing. you should be closer to 300 with your mods. Good luck!

 

[Generation X]

Originally posted by eagletalontsi
Those numbers seem pretty low for a big 16g at 17psi with a front mount. My 1g with a small 16g with similar mods and a stock side mount intercooloer put down 283hp on pump @18psi you need someone to tune your car that really knows what there doing. you should be closer to 300 with your mods. Good luck!

Your better flowing 1g head, tb, and intake manifold is where your making more power at compared to his Big 16g equipped 2g, even though he has a fmic.

 

[eagletalontsi]

Thats true. But still with the fmic you'd think it should be good for a solid 30 hp or so which would at least bring him close to 280 maybe im wrong but still seems like theres more power under that set up even with the lower flowing 2g head,tb and intake manofold.

 

[QuickerDSM]

Originally posted by eagletalontsi
Thats true. But still with the fmic you'd think it should be good for a solid 30 hp or so which would at least bring him close to 280 maybe im wrong but still seems like theres more power under that set up even with the lower flowing 2g head,tb and intake manofold.

So, was that 283whp with the Crower cams listed in your profile?

Mike