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Tuning Woes, Fuel Trim's Make No Sense!

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QuickSilverGSX9

20+ Year Contributor
123
0
Mar 9, 2003
Fairfax, Virginia
Hey all, I just need some help understanding all of this. First off, my mods are: 3" exhaust from the o2 back, 2.5" UICP w/ TB elbow, 680cc injectors, walbro 255lph hp fuel pump, hallman MBC, BR/SX AFPR w/ gauge, and the ramchargers MAFT with a 3" MAF and universal K&N filter.
Okay, so my fuel trims are acting very strange, at this point, tuning is not working with my MAFT. I've called and talked to Mike from Ramchargers and the things he suggested aren't the problems. My fuel trims after resetting the ECU are obviously 100%, however, over the period of several hours they fall down to 81% for mid and high, and low seems to do something different everytime i reset the ECU. Sometimes its really lean (139%), and sometimes its great and sits right between 90-110%. Also, I'd like to point out that even though my low fuel trim was decent, it was between 93-104% all evening, and my high fuel trim was 81%, anytime I went WOT I started to knock at first, and then as the RPM's increased, the knock would decrease. However, I notcied at and above 5500 RPM's, the car would physically and audibly stutter. Any ideas?
Mike suggested an exhaust leak on the manifold, turbine section of the turbo, or the o2 sensor housing itself. Casuing my previous 139% low fuel trim. I removed both the lower and upper heat shields and inspected them by eye as best I could, and then turned the car on and felt all around that area and felt no leaks whatsoever.
The base setting for the MAFT is at 5, which is supposedly for 600cc injectors (or minus 20%, I believe). Turning the switches for idle, mid, and wot had no change whatsoever, my mid fuel trim would drop to the 80%'s before high would and so I tried to lean it out, I put it at D or C, whatever -20% fuel at MID is. Anyways, it certainly did not lean my mid fuel trim out whatsoever, and yes, this is over a period of time, I gradually leaned mid out until it was at -20% and over that period of time it continually fell until it was 81%. I also tried leaning out the high fuel trim, and it didn't have any effect either, it gradually fell to 81-83%.
If anyone has any suggestions as to why my fuel trims are so strange, please feel free to respond, anything is worth trying at this point. I've made sure my fuel pressure is where it's supposed to be, and I've checked for intake leaks, made a cold-air box for my air filter, and everything else that's been advised. Thanks for the help.
-Bill
 
My fuel trims are the exact same way. 81% mid and high. Low almost always different :confused: Although low has been at 81% lately too. I've also checked all the same stuff and have had no results :( My car runs fine and gets no knock though. I just keep getting fuel cut :confused:
 
I'm having similar problems except my low and high are always around 100% and my mid trim is pegged at 81%. However the car runs perfect.
 
Same here. When I first installed the MAFT and my 550s base, I thought I was running really rich (.94-.96 O2 & 81% high and mid trims) so I started to lean it out. Got my O2 to about .88 but the knock count skyrocketed. Increase the fuel and got my knock down again (I must have leaned it out too much)

I'm now at 0-5 knock and good timing but still 81% mid and high trims and fluctuating low trim. The car seems to be pulling pretty good so I'm leaving it for now.

Anyone knows if it is better to tune with knock/timing or fuel trims?
 
Same goes for me.
81% mid
81% high

550's
Car gets very very shitty gas mileage.
Nothing I do changes the ####ing trims.
I get 20+ counts of knock every time I get on it.
My 5knob safc has no effect on anything also.

low 105% btw, and constantly cyling between 95-115 i'd say.

I am getting very irritated.
WTF is wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Guys, O2 trim is as important as the standard trims. Sometimes the trims will stop updating for whatever reason, the O2 trim will give you an idea of what's happening. The O2 trim AND the regular trims are used ALL THE TIME to control the injector pulsewidth.

Trims are 4X larger than fuel adjustment % on either
an AFC or the MAFT. 20% trim change is 5% actual fuel change, and is one MAFT click. You need to watch the O2 trim to see how far past 81 you are tuned. A trim of 81 with the O2 trim above ~80 will be fine.

Many cars run very well with the trims at ~81. As long as the O2 trim is not bottomed out the car will run fine, and the mileage should be fine.

Chasing a 10% trim wander is not worth the effort.

The BASE adjustment on the MAFT adjusts the WHOLE range. Set all dials to 0, set the BASE per your injector size. Cruise (high and O2)trims should be reasonable. Shooting for 100 is not necessary. In fact many cars run better with the trims in the 80's (as long as O2 trim is not bottomed). The BASE is not absolute, there is a large variation from batch to batch of these large injectors, and injector characteristics vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. The table in the instructions is a GUIDE, use the trims.

Once the basic range is set with the BASE dial (cruise trims) then adjust the idle, mid, and WOT.

The MID trim is not adjusted by the MID dial (confusing, I agree) Best to ignore mid trim, it is used for very light throttle manuvers by the ECU.

The MID dial in the translator is for moderate acceleration / low boost.
WOT is for heavy acceleration and high boost. These 2 dials are not intended to adjust trims.


Again:
BASE DIAL: Adjust for HIGH + O2 Trims at cruise (over 200 hz)
IDLE: adjust for idle trims

MID DIAL, adjust for O2's and spool

WOT DIAL, adjust for O2's, knock, EGT


HTH

Bob
 
OMG thank you finally someone who actually made some sense of all this stuff.

I was so confused I didn't know what to do. Here I am leaning my wot out thinking it controlled my high fuel trims. And wondering why I get knock so quick.

But why does my gas mileage suck so much? :laugh:
My 02 trims seem to be from 80-130 while cruising.

But thanks again, now I understand what I'm doing a little.
How would a 5knob safc come into play with this? Cause any adjustment I make on the safc doesnt effect fuel trims. Maybe its not suppost to I guess? Just more of a wot tuning tool.

Well thanks
 
Ok I set my base for 650cc injectors.
That brought my high upto 93% car seems to go much better now.
Problem is as soon as I start accelerating at a descent level or, lugging the car from say like 2500rpms and I start pressing the gas I get a hella lot of knock.

My safc doesnt do jack towards helping that.
I am gonna try and set my wot about 3 clicks richer, and my mid 2 clicks richer to see what happens.

My idle also went to about 115% so I set that one click richer.
Time for a safc2 to go along with it.
 
Boostin, I recently upgraded to bigger injectors and it turned out I had them set way too rich. I kept richening it because I had knock.

I leaned it alot and the knock is gone.

Just keep an eye on your o2 voltages at WOT so you don;t melt anything.
 
bringing this one back alive.

I have the same problem here as the others only low and mid are 81 and high is 84. Richended it when i put the 16g in and noticed that i ran lean around 5psi. No i got it to where it is running right and i am getting mad lag from 0-5 psi. Like it is drowning the engine with fuel. No smoke though.

i have a stock fuel system with rewire.
 
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