My new e85 16g setup!! - Page 8

Black_Bullet · 12-04-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Hmmm, 0.7 X 850cc = 600cc. ??? 600cc injectors are NOT enough for 500crank hp with gasoline. So 30% larger 850s won't be enough for 500 crank hp with e85.

Im sure your right, I ment to say I thought 850s were rated 500 crank HP on 93 for our cars, so assuming 40 hp drivetrain lose I didnt see why they couldnt do low 400s whp on e85 with everything flowing properly and correct fuel pressure, and a bit leaner afr due to e85s ability to resist knock.
So what airflow do you think 100% IDC would occur on 850s...

I have 850s in mines but I run 48psi base fuel pressure, with that said, I think my injectors could reach the whp numbers I stated, but with high enough boost I dont think my pump will.

dsm-onster · 12-04-2008, 01:59 PM

Well if 850s with pump gas is good for 460whp and e85 requires 30% more fuel for stoich, then 850s will supply enough fuel for 70% of 460whp or 322whp. Now e85 outputs more horsepower per unit fuel, and can be run closer to stoich for peak torque. So that rule of thumb is scewed at best. But 80 hp more? Best to find out the typical results. For example, Jayrolla's brother runs 1000cc injectors and they are peaking at 78% IDC with e85 and this equates to 780cc or 850s at 91% IDC. He's at a high altitude, so expect pushing the 850s to their absolute limit with his setup in Florida. Now what was his horsepower (estimated or at least an airflow number) with his 16g setup?

jrohner · 12-04-2008, 02:37 PM

If 850's aren't big enough for at least 450 dynjet awhp you'd have to be running way richer than necessary. I don't know what the IDC is on my 750's, but I have tuned richer than I normally run to see if my injectors were maxed and it worked fine. My cousin is running 680's at 325awhp (stock SMIC, imitation Evo3 16g @ 24psi). If I get an Evo 8 ecu soon for my car like I want to, I should then be able to see the IDC.

Black_Bullet · 12-04-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrohner

If 850's aren't big enough for at least 450 dynjet awhp you'd have to be running way richer than necessary. I don't know what the IDC is on my 750's, but I have tuned richer than I normally run to see if my injectors were maxed and it worked fine. My cousin is running 680's at 325awhp (stock SMIC, imitation Evo3 16g @ 24psi). If I get an Evo 8 ecu soon for my car like I want to, I should then be able to see the IDC.

Never heard of that lol.

Well Im not too worried about the IDC's, if I need to get bigger injectors then Ill just get some 1000c's down the line, but I think my setup can do 400awhp with 850s on e85 and my fuel pressure.
The 48psi base pressure upped the injectors flow rate a lot. I dont remember what it brought it up to though but its in the low 900cc range.

I dont plan on running e85 anytime soon anyways, 93octane will suffice for my goals since Im going with a bigger turbo now, and Id like to build motor before pushing her on ethanol/ or much beyond 400awhp.
Dsmonster thanks for clearing that up , I was just assuming since I hadnt ran e85 yet.

mobythevan · 12-05-2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Well Im not too worried about the IDC's, if I need to get bigger injectors then Ill just get some 1000c's down the line, but I think my setup can do 400awhp with 850s on e85 and my fuel pressure.

That is my thought as well. I'll see where 850's take me and then upgrade if I need to. I brought my gas cans with me today to get the E85 so I can start tuning on it tomorrow. I am too scared to fill up at the pump today and switch my injector size for the drive home. I would probably end up stalled at a major intersection

Black_Bullet · 12-05-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobythevan

That is my thought as well. I'll see where 850's take me and then upgrade if I need to. I brought my gas cans with me today to get the E85 so I can start tuning on it tomorrow. I am too scared to fill up at the pump today and switch my injector size for the drive home. I would probably end up stalled at a major intersection

I dont think its that big a deal, just watch the AFR.

JayRolla · 12-05-2008, 08:18 PM

Me and my brother are close in setups. Ive seen 69% IDC's on my 1200's. He see's 78% on 1000's. He has no boost leaks and I have a hefty one at about 15psi at an injector seal.

mobythevan · 12-06-2008, 03:45 PM

Well, I got it swapped over to E85 today. Spent all day driving it around and tuning on it. It seems to do really good. I am still at 18psi. I'll drive it a week and then think about upping the boost a bit. The only tuning that should be left now is cold starting stuff. I have megasquirt so some things are a little different for me. Otherwise I am very happy with the change over. I did add more timing across the table under boost and it pulls really good. I am still conservative but I want to take it easy adding timing and boost over a few weeks.

JayRolla · 12-07-2008, 06:09 AM

Why. Just take a day and add timing/boost. Doing it over time wont make it any safer?

mobythevan · 12-07-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Why. Just take a day and add timing/boost. Doing it over time wont make it any safer?

No, but it will make my money last longer when I break stuff and I don't have a lot of money right now.

jrohner · 12-07-2008, 08:21 AM

I would say to just start out with a timing table similar to the stock 1g one. They are fairly aggressive for high boost.

JayRolla · 12-07-2008, 09:24 AM

I agree, stock 1g timing map is I think 22* peak than drops a few at 6000rpms.

Black_Bullet · 12-07-2008, 09:37 PM

Are any of you guys having any traction problems with these aggressive e85 tunes on 16gs or bigger in your AWDs? Like JayRolla, your setup for example?

JayRolla · 12-08-2008, 12:31 AM

Yes, very badly. I spin all the way through 1st no madder what I launch at. I launch too low than I fall out a boost a little and I dont like that either.

Black_Bullet · 12-08-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla

Yes, very badly. I spin all the way through 1st no madder what I launch at. I launch too low than I fall out a boost a little and I dont like that either.

Yea the reason Im asking you guys is because at 25psi right now, this cold weather is making boost hold longer and Im still seeing 19degs peak timing, 11.3 afrs on 93 octane, and Ive been noticing my car getting a little squirmey also and I have welded diff?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hang...#post151692862

JayRolla · 12-08-2008, 09:33 AM

Yea last night I did a hard shift to second and it got a little squirly. My fiance got all scared.

->PrOjEcTGS<- · 12-12-2008, 10:52 PM

DAMNIT JAYROLLA!!!

I caved... Tonight I put in 5 bucks worth of E85 and then topped it off with 91 octane. I'm trying to push the envelope with the S16G. I was getting a little knock @24psi on the full 91 octane @ a 10.8:1 AFR. So, I'm on the way home from work and I needed gas anyway. I pull up to the E85 pump and stare at the nozzle.... Thought to myself, "Should I?" conscience said, "Yep..." So on the way home from the station I did a 2nd gear pull and my AFR is now about 11.5:1 @24psi. I hope to pull a log soon to see if the knock is gone. Hope it is.

BTW, E85 here is $1.14 and 87octane is $1.29.

JayRolla · 12-14-2008, 07:27 PM

Sweet man, It may help a little, but I would get more e85 in there are start tuning.

mobythevan · 12-15-2008, 08:59 AM

I had planned to up my boost over the weekend but ended up fixing boost leaks instead. I ordered several t-bolt clamps and had to replace the pcv. Next weekend I should be turning it up. Also it was -4 degrees F this morning when I started the car. It started up well. I made several changes to my cold start settings over the weekend.

mobythevan · Yesterday, 10:15 AM

Update: After fixing all my boost leaks so the car held 18psi steady I then started pushing a little coolant uder boost. I pulled the head last night and the gasket fire rings were split on all the cylinders. I caught it early so I don't think I will need to get anything machined. I believe this damage was done on pump gas over the last year.