whos running maft i want your input!

[talon187]

ok all my mods are in my profile but im running a maft with safc2. the car was tuned about 3 weeks ago and she riped perfectly no issues it was running about 11.0-11.4 in boost. now i went to get on it in 3ard gear it cuts me off at 5k and its 10.1 running pig rich. i called my friend he told its the maft. he says it could run diffrent everyday anyone else have issues like this? and if so what else could i run besides a maft i was thinking dsm link but he said it needs the maft and if thats the case i dont want to go that route thanks for the help and input

 

[92AWDHX40]

Well ive had the maft on my car for about a year with no problems, i had a
friend do a log and there were no problems, with it. I now have a logger
and once my car is running in a few weeks ill be able to see whats really
going on with my car. So no probs yet. You mentioned dsmlink, do you have it?

 

[talon187]

no i dont i was thinking of running it but my friend said the maft is still needed for it so there fore i dont want to run it

 

[bluetlr2001]

I believe dsmlink is suspossed to come out with a version that will work with the gm mas. But as far as running the maft i have it. And ive read on some post that the gm mas will get some moisture in it causing it to run differently. And thats the only problem ive had out of mine after its been humid or rained it wants to run richer under boost around 9.1.

 

[turbo90gsx]

DSMLink will work will all the DSM MAF's 1g, 2g, and the GM mas. If you were to get DSM link I would ditch the GM crap and run a 2g maf. I run a GM MAS with DSM link, it works but requires much more tunning.

 

[1992awdlaser]

You need a maft with dsmlink only if you run a gm maf. They are coming out with V3 which is supposed to eliminate the need for a maft but there is no set date for its release. I have a maft on my car with dsmlink and have no problems with it at all.

 

[madman]

Does your friend explain why you need a GM Maf?

The only reason I could think that you NEED a GM Maf is if you are not recirculation you BOV.

What BOV are you using? Is it recirculation?

If you are recirculating then you can go back to a stock MAS and just use the SAFC II to tune.

I used a GM Maf so I could use the Tial BOV which doesnt' recirculate, even then there are other ways around using the GM Maf.

I had the GM Maf/S-AFC I combo and it was a PITA to tune. I never got it 100%.

EDIT:

Are you using the GM Maf in a Blow-thru or Blow-bye setup?

 

[Black_Bullet]

To recirculate your bov is not the main reason you should get a maft...

The key thing of getting Gm maft put in blow thru configuration should be to free up restriction right in front of your turbo that could help it spool faster, and supply max air flow without any detriment to its potiential by sitting a mas sensor in front of it.

Regardless what size turbo is being used, for anyone looking to eck out every last bit of power out of their turbo a blow thru set up is definitly the way to go, and the more lb/min of air is being pushed then the more and more the draw thru style mas will restrict overall efforts of the turbo...

I plan to get a GM maft for my e316g 1g in the summer some time.
I wont use it to tune though, i tune with eprom chips and rom tuning, so the Maft will be zero'd out.

 

[snowborder714]

Just to clarify something, are you running a GM MAF in blow thru? I see nothing mentioned about it in this thread or in your profile.

 

[madman]

To recirculate your bov is not the main reason you should get a maft...
.

That's not what I was saying.

Sounds like he wants to get rid of the GM Maf but his friend is saying he needs it.

I'm trying to find out why he "needs it".

 

[madman]

The key thing of getting Gm maft put in blow thru configuration should be to free up restriction right in front of your turbo that could help it spool faster, and supply max air flow without any detriment to its potiential by sitting a mas sensor in front of it.

Regardless what size turbo is being used, for anyone looking to eck out every last bit of power out of their turbo a blow thru set up is definitly the way to go, and the more lb/min of air is being pushed then the more and more the draw thru style mas will restrict overall efforts of the turbo...

I plan to get a GM maft for my e316g 1g in the summer some time.
I wont use it to tune though, i tune with eprom chips and rom tuning, so the Maft will be zero'd out.

That's the theory I used when I did my setup.

Now I wished I would have gone with a Speed Density setup.

No MAS restriciton and no GM Maf to hassle with.

 

[talon187]

yes im running a bushur race core with the maft in blow threw setup

 

[madman]

yes im running a bushur race core with the maft in blow threw setup

The only other way for your setup is too run in speed density.

I can't remember the specifics but I think you would need a VPC, maybe DSM Link (not sure if it suports speed density) or of course AEM EMS.

Other than that you'll need to keep the GM Maf and unfortunatly deal with the inconsisitancies of it with a S-AFC.

 

[snowborder714]

maybe DSM Link (not sure if it suports speed density)

Nope, not yet. Any standalone EMS, MAF-T Pro, or VPC will work for speed density. But this isn't something I'd consider for your setup.

How are you tuning with the S-AFC/MAF-T combo? I'm not familiar with an S-AFC, but I've read people using the combo and they only use the MAF-T to control the injectors and then zero everything else out and use the S-AFC to tune.

Or, if you want/need, you could sell the S-AFC and get DSMlink (which will allow you to tune your fuel and timing independently) and it also would give you a logger, which it looks like you don't have right now.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Another reason to run a gm maf is is you are over running a stock maf. But with dsmlink even if you were over running a stock maf you could still use it with the fake maf function. Obviously it would be easier to use a gm maf in that case but if you are completely against a gm maf you could do that.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Another reason to run a gm maf is is you are over running a stock maf. But with dsmlink even if you were over running a stock maf you could still use it with the fake maf function. Obviously it would be easier to use a gm maf in that case but if you are completely against a gm maf you could do that.

2g, evo, or gm Maft- otherwise go speed density...

Dont use your maft to tune, get chipped ecu or dsmlink to control it.
Safcs suck and are very limited in what they can do by themselves.
Ppl having trouble tuning mafts is because thats all there tuning with , or because
they rely on the safc to dial in their maft setups.
Someone with dsmlink or a regular eprom chip tune shouldnt have too much trouble, and just keep a logger and a wideband handy and the tune will be decent in no time.

 

[turborebel]

I would try a 3g MAS. I don't like my MAF-T either.

 

[turboglenn]

IMO MAF of any style is a PITA when tying to go past teh stock ECU's set amount of allowable airflow. Unfortunately this comes very fast on a DSM when turning up the boost or changing turbos.

There's always going to be changes in your tune with any change in air quality/density or humidity since the air will change with the amont of water disolved into it.

So either way i've neveer seen a car tthat will hold the exact same AFR's EVERY TIME pull and pull again. That's why i make a few hard pulls and then judge the tune oif the third or fourth pull. That's the best way i've found to get consistant results. Running up through all the gears time after time looking to get the same results isn't going to happen on a turbo charged vehicle.

If you just don't want to run a MAF sensor, then get an HKS VPC to change to speed density and then add DSMlink on top of that. Or just bypass all the BS and go full on stand alone engine management. The DSMlink is awesome for what it will allow 90% of it's users to do, but some of us want more, some need more and a most don't need anything more than DSMlink. If i did another eclipse i would probably go with DSMlink, people have made enough horse power on it to satisfy me and it's easier to setup than a full stand alone and can be taken out for emissions test day if you live some where like that.

I guess i'm rambling, but it is tough to figure out what you want or if you're just trying to see if you need a MAF sensor to run DSMlink. MY thoughts are that you don't wnt to run one, so everyhitng above can be your next decision in parts. If you go fiull stand alone EMS, It's going to be harder to tune and there's a learning curve like a brick wall at first. But you must honesty decide how far you're going with the car, what you do and don't want and then stick with it!

 

[madman]

IMO MAF of any style is a PITA when tying to go past teh stock ECU's set amount of allowable airflow. Unfortunately this comes very fast on a DSM when turning up the boost or changing turbos.

There's always going to be changes in your tune with any change in air quality/density or humidity since the air will change with the amont of water disolved into it.

So either way i've neveer seen a car tthat will hold the exact same AFR's EVERY TIME pull and pull again. That's why i make a few hard pulls and then judge the tune oif the third or fourth pull. That's the best way i've found to get consistant results. Running up through all the gears time after time looking to get the same results isn't going to happen on a turbo charged vehicle.

If you just don't want to run a MAF sensor, then get an HKS VPC to change to speed density and then add DSMlink on top of that. Or just bypass all the BS and go full on stand alone engine management. The DSMlink is awesome for what it will allow 90% of it's users to do, but some of us want more, some need more and a most don't need anything more than DSMlink. If i did another eclipse i would probably go with DSMlink, people have made enough horse power on it to satisfy me and it's easier to setup than a full stand alone and can be taken out for emissions test day if you live some where like that.

I guess i'm rambling, but it is tough to figure out what you want or if you're just trying to see if you need a MAF sensor to run DSMlink. MY thoughts are that you don't wnt to run one, so everyhitng above can be your next decision in parts. If you go fiull stand alone EMS, It's going to be harder to tune and there's a learning curve like a brick wall at first. But you must honesty decide how far you're going with the car, what you do and don't want and then stick with it!

Myself having been a GM Maft-T user .....I agree 100%

 

[talon187]

it doesnt matter how ita is outside i cant go past 4.5k-5k it runs pig rich i see 10 on the wideband at about 4300 rpmso im wondering if maybe theres water im my gm sensor. i might try running my other sensor that has no screen and see how that works out. the maft is set for the injector size and thats it. the safc2 is where i do the majority of my tuning what is speed density? if you guys dont mind me asking.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Speed density eliminates the maf sensor and replaces it with a map(manifold absolute pressure) sensor and ait(air intake temperature)sensor. This is what you see on a lot of the 4 cylinder gm's like cavaliers. If you look in the intake pipe there will be a two wire sensor. That is the ait sensor. The map sensor is normally on the intake manifold. Doing this on your car will eliminate the restriction of the maf and make it easier to tune.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Speed density eliminates the maf sensor and replaces it with a map(manifold absolute pressure) sensor and ait(air intake temperature)sensor. This is what you see on a lot of the 4 cylinder gm's like cavaliers. If you look in the intake pipe there will be a two wire sensor. That is the ait sensor. The map sensor is normally on the intake manifold. Doing this on your car will eliminate the restriction of the maf and make it easier to tune.

Ive heard that speed density was not so easy to set up and dial in though?

 

[1992awdlaser]

The only reason it is not that easy to dial in is because of what it is used with, AEM. AEM itself is the reason it is hard not speed density. Once ECMTuning comes out with V3 of Dsmlink if they have speed density as a feature like they are supposed to then you will be able to see what I mean.

 

[JayRolla]

So did you figure out why you are cutting out? Sounds like a boost leak causing you to run pig rich and cut out.

 

[talon187]

it happens at 5kish im at full boost before that but it goes to about 11.6 and then shoots to 10 and then cuts me off but i think im going to get rid of the maft and safc2 and go vpc or dsm link for dsm with v3 how will the speed density work anyone know vent the bov with no issues no mass sensor needed correct? any idea on a release date?