Ply. Laser 1.8 swap to 4G63 or 420A?

[euroticcustoms]

Hey guys, I just ran into a problem. Well, here's quite a long story...I've been under the impression that every 2.0 16V eclipse/talon/laser/avenger/sebring/sonatra/elantra (within the appropriate year range) had a 4G63. Well, now I find that the 95+ Eclipse, Talon, Avenger, Sebring have the 420A, and this completely screws up my entire train of thought

I owned a 95 Talon ESi, and my friend owns a 96 Avenger with the 2.0. Before doing research on the net, I had my car parked beside his and noticed they had the same doors, seats, and dash. I then ran across an Avenger with front end damage...I had the hood up and noticed that the engine compartment looked exactly the same as mine...so I pulled my car nose to nose with the Avenger and popped it's hood and saw that they were EXACTLY the same. At the time, I was planning to put a body kit and hood on the Talon and KNEW that the factory front clip off of the Talon would fit the Avenger. I thought I had found a secret DSM loophole Well, I did some internet research and found that the conversion had already been done, but anyway. That's totally off subject, but...

I was still under the impression that my 95 Talon had a 4G63. That was last year...I owned the car for about 4 months, blew a heater hose, got the engine very hot, got spooked and sold the car, but the car is still running to this day Ya see, this guy I know (who owns a salvage yard and a garage) had a 1995 Talon n/t in his shop one day...the head was cracked. He had a 93 Laser with the 2.0 in it...he got curious and took the head off of the Laser engine (4G63?) and compared it to the 95 Talon (420A?) head, and they looked identical...they even called for the same head gasket. So, he bolted the Laser head to the Talon block, and everything worked out perfectly. Anyway...

Well, sorry for the long story, but now down to my question. I just traded a 1988 S-10 Blazer for a 1994 Plymouth Laser with a 1.8 SOHC 5spd. I know it's rated at 92 HP, but still, it runs kinda good considering. Anyway, I'd like to put EVO pistions and AEM cams in a 4G63...turbo it and drop it into the Laser. Under the impression that the Eclipse 2.0 from 92-99 was the 4G63...I stopped by another friend's salvage yard today because I saw that he just brought in a 96 Talon ESi with roll-over damage...he said he'd sell me the engine for $400. Well, I was looking at model information on this website, and it says the 95-99 Talon ESi/Eclipse GS have the 420A. i'm TOTALLY confused.

I'm sure I could buy the block from the 2.0 Laser I was talking about earlier in this post for pretty cheap and buy another head for it from ebay or another salvage yard...or something...anyway...what the hell am I to do? I have connections with 4 local salvage yards and a couple exhaust shops...I don't want to buy another car...I've got around $800 in this Laser, and it has a NEW transmission and clutch...174K miles on the engine though. I want to piece together the engine and turbo system, and build it myself over the winter for as cheap as possible. I know it won't be CHEAP, but still...I want to spend no more than I have to. What should I do? I don't think I want to turbo a 420A? But, under the impression that the 96 Talon ESi 2.0 was a 4G63, I thought I could get away with EVO pistons and rings on the stock bottom end...new bearings and gaskets and it would be ready for a turbo...but I guess EVO pistons wouldn't work in a 420A. Now, I wonder if the 93 Laser 2.0 4G63 (I'm assuming) bottom end would be the best route for a winter project.

Also, what kind of wiring will I have to do either way? I'm planning on a fuel mapping system and everything...but what kind of wiring would it take to bolt either engine (the best one) into the Laser.

Well, I'm very sorry for the long post, I'm just not too good at condensing. If anybody can give me any advice at all I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks ahead of time

 

[myblack98gst]

I dont know what to say to this post but,, WOW!! here is some information to help you out MAYBE.


89-94 available engines for Talon/Eclipse/Laser

4g63T - from the turbo cars
4g63 - from the 2.0L non turbo cars
4g61? - from the 1.8L non turbo cars


95-99 available engines

4g63T - 2.0L from the turbo cars
4g64 - 2.4L from the spyder non-turbo cars
420a - 2.0L from the non-turbo cars.. also used in neons, sebrings, ad many other cars.. this motor is built by chrysler not mitsubishi



the 4g63T will go in you 94 1.8L car, the 420a WILL NOT go in without MAJOR work, and it would not be worth the work.

 

[ACKERSON]

save some money and sell your car then go buy a turbo car. It doesn't sound like you have the knowledge or the mechanical skills to do a swap. Aem doesn't make cams and why would you want to use evo pistons? Do some research and think this through before you waste all of your hard earned money.

 

[Spyder FX]

4g61? - from the 1.8L non turbo cars

Its the 4g37.

 

[euroticcustoms]

save some money and sell your car then go buy a turbo car. It doesn't sound like you have the knowledge or the mechanical skills to do a swap. Aem doesn't make cams and why would you want to use evo pistons? Do some research and think this through before you waste all of your hard earned money.

Well, I don't really wanna sell the car. I've got around $800 in it and it's in great condition other than the 1.8. As far as the knowledge, I'm a little confused about the DSM 2.0 engines, but as far as mechanical skills, I'm not lacking. In the past year I've done engine rebuilds from rings, rod/main bearings, etc. on GM 2.8 engines (not worth it IMO), a 3.4L engine swap into a 2.8 S-10, head-gasket on a mitsubishi mighty max with the 2.4, head gasket on a pontiac grand prix with the 2.3 quad 4, new head on a geo metro 1.0 3 cylinder, a 93 LT1 corvette engine into my 95 Camaro Z28, a Jasper 3.1L engine swap into my buddy's 87 pontiac fiero, new heads on my 93 Mitsubishi diamante 3.0 sohc, and cams in my *RIP* 2.3 Si Prelude...not trying to bragg or anything, but I've been working on cars for the past 8 years. Ask me anything about interchanging internals between a GM 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4....or a chevrolet small block...or honda engines...or mitsubishi 3.0's and I'm pretty knowledgable...this is just the first time i've really been INTERESTRED in learning the 2.0 engines or turbos.

It was my mistake about the AEM cams...I was thinking about the adjustable cam gears maybe when I posted that...but I did see cams for the 4g63 on ebay for around $400...not sure what brand...possibly Comp Cams or something...but anyway.

And as far why I wanted to swap in EVO pistons...I was reading an article on this website that said the most cost effective way to turbo a non-turbo 4G63 is to buy EVO 8 (or maybe 7?) pistons and rings from the mitsubishi dealership for somewhere around $200, and swap on the turbo head. Said with a metal head gasket, the compression ratio would be around 8.?:1...I can't remember exactly what the number would be...but anyway. $200 for rings and pistons is cheaper than $468 for aftermarket ones. And I'm really not trying to go too extravegant...just want to piece together my first turbo and learn a little bit. I like to learn new things, and I'm pretty quick at it. I just did my first headliner today...in the Laser...and I know that's a totally different ballpark, but my first time around, it looks factory. Whoever owned the car before me ripped the cloth completely off (that was the only thing wrong with the interior) and I replaced the light gray cloth with black...and dyed the sun visors, painted the moon-roof latch, all the push clips that hold the headliner up, and the trim that holds the headliner up around the moon-roof opening black. But anyway...i'm going on and on about pointless crap.

Thanks for all the replies everybody. I'm going to find a 4g63 and drop it in this car...just for a learning experience. And I will definitely read more posts...I just haven't had time lately to do MUCH. Thanks again...and if anybody else has any more comments, please let me hear them.

Paul

 

[euroticcustoms]

Oh BTW, you guys may think I'm BS'ing, but I just stopped by the guys shop today that did the head swap from the laser to the Talon...I bought a set of darker sun visors from his Laser(easier to dye)...it was a 92 Plymouth Laser with the 2.0 DOHC...and he put the head off of it onto a 96 Talon with the 2.0 DOHC. He did no tuning whatsoever and the car is still running excellent and is driven daily. This is what lead me to believe that the engines were exactly the same, i think? But I SWEAR...i even made it a point to MAKE SURE that he had done this...and he did. He said his interchange book, and every other salvage yard he called said that the heads would not interchange, but after he inspected them, he tried it and it worked. The 95 head had a crack in it and some guy gave him a turbo head to put on the 95 engine...the turbo head was off of an older model 2.0, but he said it looked the same other than it had larger combustion chambers, so he didn't want to use it. But, he still has the 92 Laser, and the head is gone...he said the only thing that was wrong with it when he bought it was the computer was messed up. And I was down there having the rotors turned for my 92 Prelude when he was putting the head off of the older Laser onto the Talon....I just thought it was a little crazy because I had just gotten rid of my Talon, and my buddy had just bought a 92 Talon TSi AWD, so I thought "Hey, they had the same engine, I could have turbo'ed my Talon fairly easily" and never thought a thing about it after that until I got this Laser I know I probably sound like a dumbass, but that's the way it goes. I'm not really the best at putting my feelings into words, but anyway, just thought i'd throw that in. Thanks again everybody.

 

[euroticcustoms]

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5986

that's the link to the page that says you can use EVO pistons in the 4G63 to get 8.7:1 compression ratio.

I'm still confused as to how the 92 head worked on a 96 car, but oh well...I'm just going to buy the 4G63 out of the Lazer, buy a turbo head, have the crank turned, put new rods/mains, pistons and rings in it, and piece together the turbo over the winter. Actually, I'm going to try to get a job at a local salvage yard over the winter. BUT 230 HP would be fine with me...and it says in that link that $600 would buy all of the parts used...$2800 new...but the way I see it, if I buy new/used and sink $1500 into the engine, and make 230 HP...and have $2300 in the car, everything will be cool...and it will give me something to do.

 

[euroticcustoms]

one more thing...my 95 Talon had 420A stamped on the firewall...i just remembered that.

 

[ACKERSON]

do some more research there is a ton of info on here, I would try to find a complete running 4g63t to swap in if you can. Piecing it all together is possible, but a pain the ass. Last summer a buddy of mine tried it with his 2.0 na car and after about 3 months of f-ing with it he just bought a running 4g63t from a junkyard for like $400 and got it over with. Good luck