HI TH settings on SAFC

[44pirate]

I've been seaching and reading, I have the LO Th set good I used RRE suggestions and Paradox. The high setttings are a PITA. When I go WOT in 3rd from 3000 rpm to 7000 rpm, My O2 are at .96 I get 14 degrees timing and about 850 EGT at 19psi. I can't turn down the PSI any lower.
LOTH
1K -8 2K-9 3K-9 4K-9 5K -9 5.5K +2 6K +2 7K+2

HITH
1K -23 2K -25 3K -26 4K -25 5K-24 5.5K-24 6K-23 7K-20
All the HC's are in. When I lean it out more the EGT's go up really fast to 900 by 6000rpm but my timing gets pulled. My O2's stay at .96. Do I need to increase boost? If I richen it up it backfire's betwwen shifts.
This is driving me crazy. Can anyone help a brother out.
_________________
1997 TSI AWD

 

[2-0turbo]

Are you on the stock intercooler? If so, you are getting knock due to high intake temps. The stock SMIC cannot remove enough heat from 19 PSI. I would suggest tuning at a lower boost level (a level you know will not produce knock) and work your way up. Take small steps and you will find it easier.

 

[44pirate]

My sig shows I'm using the Supra MKIV sidemount. I can't turn down the Boost. My MBC won't allow it. Thanks

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by 2-0turbo
Are you on the stock intercooler? If so, you are getting knock due to high intake temps. The stock SMIC cannot remove enough heat from 19 PSI. I would suggest tuning at a lower boost level (a level you know will not produce knock) and work your way up. Take small steps and you will find it easier.

The stock SMIC is good enough for 11s running over 20psi on a 16G. I don't think that is this guys problem. His problem is that he is using two stupid tuning devices (02s, EGTs). You are wasting your time without a logger or a WB.

 

[44pirate]

You guys should read my sig I have a logger. With what I have to tune with can anyone give me some better insight. A pocketlogger and SAFC, I thought this was the way to tune with. Am I missing something. Thanks

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by 44pirate
Am I missing somethin.

Obviously. You have 550s and a stock MAS, tuning your car should not be this hard. Do yourself a favor and ignore the 02s and EGTs entirely. I don't know what all a pocketlogger can monitor but I assume it's got some sort of thing that tells you how many degrees of timing are being pulled. Try to keep that low and you will be a-okay, sparky.

 

[44pirate]

Yes my pocketlogger gives me my timing advance compared to my rpm. If you haven't tuned a 2G then you probably can't help me non sparky 2. When you say keep it low how low is low. So if my EGT aproach 950c 1700degrees I should just let it blow up. You are confusing me on a good sense to tuning.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by 44pirate
Yes my pocketlogger gives me my timing advance compared to my rpm. If you haven't tuned a 2G then you probably can't help me non sparky 2. When you say keep it low how low is low. So if my EGT aproach 950c 1700degrees I should just let it blow up. You are confusing me on a good sense to tuning.

Ignore EGTs. I don't even know why people still have EGT gauges, they are totally inaccurate. All I have is a boost gauge.

If you can see timing advance then you can see if timing is being pulled because it will be lower than it was before. Duh. Try to keep that to a minimum. Shoot for around 18 or so degrees of advance. If it is below that, or it drops off at all as you go then you have knock and you need to add fuel.

 

[44pirate]

Now your talking. See that was my whole problem. I wasn't sure if my timing was being pulled from not enough or too much fuel. So know if I add fuel my timing should go up. Problably to a point then it will come down at this point would more boost help in the timing.

 

[BatmanGSX]

I think you can probably get away with running 20psi. You really have to pump a lot of fuel in to get it knock from being rich. If timing keeps going up a lot then you are golden. I'd try to shoot for 18 degrees, maybe a little more. With 550s I don't think you can pull enough air out with the AFC to get it much higher on pump gas.

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX


Ignore EGTs. I don't even know why people still have EGT gauges, they are totally inaccurate. All I have is a boost gauge.

Huh? I would agree if we were naturally aspirated, but not forced induction. If you don't have a EGT, how do you know you are too lean until you blow a ring land or melt a hole in the piston? Maybe it doesn't matter in 1/4 mile racing if you run a bit too hot. It does in road racing when you are full throttle for extended periods. This doesn't sound like "wise" advice to me.

One additional thing: pretty much every piston aircraft engine (turbine for that matter) has an EGT gauge. For what? To set the mixture properly (vernier adjustment on the panel) and lean it out for cruise (for piston) and adjust fuel during startup and cruise in a turbine.

 

[44pirate]

I've done somemore runs. Got my timing up to 17 degrees by setting my HITH settings to -18 across the board. Going closer to 0 with the HITH settings is RICHENING it isn't it? EGTs are still 850

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by 2-0turbo


Huh? I would agree if we were naturally aspirated, but not forced induction. If you don't have a EGT, how do you know you are too lean until you blow a ring land or melt a hole in the piston? Maybe it doesn't matter in 1/4 mile racing if you run a bit too hot. It does in road racing when you are full throttle for extended periods. This doesn't sound like "wise" advice to me.

One additional thing: pretty much every piston aircraft engine (turbine for that matter) has an EGT gauge. For what? To set the mixture properly (vernier adjustment on the panel) and lean it out for cruise (for piston) and adjust fuel during startup and cruise in a turbine.

I AGREE, what are you going to do. look at the logger as you make a 3rd gear pull? I can see it now...... my motor just exploded let me look at my logger and see why you're egt is a warning gauge. just like if you're wot and look over at you're a/f gauge and its burried on the red side. DUH you're lean get out of it and see what wrong. no no better yet, mount a camera in you're car put you're hands over you're face, crash into a tree then play the tape back to see why you hit the tree.

This doesn't sound like "wise" advice to me.

ditto.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by 44pirate
. Going closer to 0 with the HITH settings is RICHENING it isn't it? EGTs are still 850

yes

 

[BatmanGSX]

I've said this before and I will say it again, EGT gauges have a margin of error of 3%, probes can be 5% and I've seen a lot worse (boiling water test). Hmmm... 8% of 1500 is quite a bit. Now if you calibrate your EGT to a digital gauge (again, using boiling water) you can get a little closer. How many people do that? How many people know that all EGT gauges are designed to have three cold junction system (the tip of the probe itself, one in the middle and the connection to the gauge)? Also probes accuracy decays over time, sometimes they will just be 300F off one day. How can you trust something like that?

Then what is too high? 1650F some say. Why? Aluminum melts at a temperature a lot lower than that (14xx I think). Where in the f*** does 1650F come from? I've heard of people running as high as 1850F on a calibrated gauge/probe and have no damage. EGT readings themselves don't really mean anything. You heat metal up and it softens. It's going to happen. So the problem comes in when you start detonating while stuff is hot/soft, you blow holes in the pistons or the head. Yes, high temps can cause knock. But whose to say which temps will cause which fuels to light off? C16 almost has to have a spark to flash. Pump gas is a lot more volatile. What EGT will cause it combust? What about probe placement? What if your probe placement says 1600 and someone elses says 1550 with the same exact circumstances?

I personally don't have an EGT, I don't feel I need one. I'm not saying they are *totally* useless as a whole. But they are pretty damn useless for tuning or telling if you are rich or lean. For instance, too much fuel will cause EGTs to go up too. If you are really good you can use it to tune just by watching needle movement but not the actual temp itself. Not many people would even know what to look for in that case.

Get an EGT, whatever... But don't come on a forum saying, "Guys I'm lean because my EGT says 1650." Take EGTs and their meanings with a grain of salt.

 

[candela]

quote:
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Originally posted by 2-0turbo


Huh? I would agree if we were naturally aspirated, but not forced induction. If you don't have a EGT, how do you know you are too lean until you blow a ring land or melt a hole in the piston? Maybe it doesn't matter in 1/4 mile racing if you run a bit too hot. It does in road racing when you are full throttle for extended periods. This doesn't sound like "wise" advice to me.

One additional thing: pretty much every piston aircraft engine (turbine for that matter) has an EGT gauge. For what? To set the mixture properly (vernier adjustment on the panel) and lean it out for cruise (for piston) and adjust fuel during startup and cruise in a turbine.
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I AGREE, what are you going to do. look at the logger as you make a 3rd gear pull? I can see it now...... my motor just exploded let me look at my logger and see why you're egt is a warning gauge. just like if you're wot and look over at you're a/f gauge and its burried on the red side. DUH you're lean get out of it and see what wrong. no no better yet, mount a camera in you're car put you're hands over you're face, crash into a tree then play the tape back to see why you hit the tree.


quote:
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This doesn't sound like "wise" advice to me.
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ditto.






LMFAO:laugh:

I think those setting you had on your afc were a bit to low for 550s, and you have a 2g also. Listen to 2-0 turbo, try to tune it good from say 15 or 16psi then gradually increase.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by 44pirate
I've done somemore runs. Got my timing up to 17 degrees by setting my HITH settings to -18 across the board. Going closer to 0 with the HITH settings is RICHENING it isn't it? EGTs are still 850

Yeah, that's sounding good. Yes, getting closer to 0% will make you richer. See what happens if you go to around -15% at your boost threshold and then hold that setting to redline. See if maybe you get a little more timing. Also, if you are doing pulls from a roll, get into the throttle really gradually, sometimes stomping on it will cause knock that won't go away for the rest of the pull. Also, after awhile try reseting the ECU (disconnect battery) and then go again (your AFC will hold the settings even with no power).

 

[candela]

I used to get kinda pissd at your posts Batman, but now I just love reading what you write. Your sig fits perfectly

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by jdmawd
I AGREE, what are you going to do. look at the logger as you make a 3rd gear pull? I can see it now...... my motor just exploded let me look at my logger and see why

I usually log my car with a fellow DSMer copiloting with the laptop sitting, ironically, on his lap. Works pretty well, I just tell he to watch the knock and as soon as he sees a spike, he grabs my... I mean he tells me to let off.

Of course if you have no friends I can see your point.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX

Of course if you have no friends I can see your point.

my friends are mustang drones, they are not allowed in the ride

 

[candela]

Hey will you guys help me out if I go and make a log right now?

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by jdmawd


my friends are mustang drones, they are not allowed in the ride

That's a good point.

The guy I use is my friend from High School, way back when he had Chevy Malibu and I had a VW. Come to think of it, neither of us are allowed in my Talon ever again.

 

[44pirate]

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been able to make any more runs today. Maybe tommorrow. I think I'm beginning to understand it better. I still think that leaning it out will give me more power. But according to my timing, richer gives me better timing. Where it all really counts is MPH in the 1/4. Sure wish the track was open.

 

[44pirate]

Well I got my timing up to 17degrees to 6900rpm in 3rd, my egt's are only 825-850. I'm at -15 on the HITH settings. So if I richen it anymore it seems like my EGT's are going down. THis is on 93 pump gas, 19psi. May be turn boost up since my EGT's went down?