14B Dyno Results = Dissapointing, Need Help Interpreting Dyno + Tuning

[Golden4g63child]

Just like the title says, took my 14b powered 2G to the dyno today and the results are embarassing. All my power mods are listed below/in my profile. Basically had two runs and I could only muster 215hp and 226.1TQ on 15psi. I was expecting alot more power. Could this be due to the lack of fuel mods that I have or some other issues (Just order Walbros 190 fuel pump by the way) Looking at my dyno graph, it there anything obvious that is wrong with my car? I am new to tuning so please feel free to feed me some advice/suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated! Also, if anyone knows how to interpret my dyno graph, that would be greatly helpful too. Thanks.

- Greddy FMIC
- Greddy Intercooler Pipes
- Greddy Type S BOV
- Greddy Profec B EBC (Set @ 15PSI)
- Greddy Power Extreme Cat-back Exhaust
- Megan Racing Downpipe
- Ported 14B
- Ported 2G Manifold
- Ported 2G o2 Housing
- Ngk Spark Plug Wires
- Ngk BPR7ES
- K&N Intake Filter
- Injen Turbo Inlet Pipe
- ACT 2100 Clutch
- ACT XACT Flywheel
- BM LSD Insert

[NewB2dsm]

man you are lean.. i hope this is not on pump gas. 14:1 on pump gas is nuts man. You need fuel 550s and afc = next mod.

[kpt4321]

Yup, you're leaning out like hell up top. More fuel is your friend!

[Golden4g63child]

Thanks for the input guys, now is the lack of fuel mods the primary reason for my low horsepower output? I seen guys with a 14b and basic mods put out way more horsepower numbers then what I have (VERTGST for example..)?

[kpt4321]

I can't say for sure, but I would be very inclined to affirm that yes, that is correct.

Your A/F ratio is EXTREMELY lean, to the point where I would say you are at a lot of risk of doing damage. You're losing power because the car is so lean, and you are losing even more power due to the subsequent timing retard.

I think that you may have a fuel pump issue, first and foremost. 450's should be able to support more horsepower than that.

[Violater101]

You definately need a bigger pump. As i'm sure your aware, you'll want to also want to get some inj's and some sort of fuel tuning device if you want to run more than 15psi effectively and safe. I'm sure you were probably knocking ALOT on that pull hence the low #'s. I shoot for an A/F of around 11.4 and your near 14 :eek:

[ohio98eclipse]

If hes running lean than i must be to. I have a 98gst with a 14b same mods as him minus the FMIC and im running 16 psi on stock pump and injectors...is this a bad idea? hehe geuss i should get a walbro

[Race94]

whoa i guess i'm running lean too
another 14b powered 2g GST running 16psi

Will it be alright to run 16-18psi with a 190lph and no inyectors?

[NewB2dsm]

You guys jump the gun too soon. For all we know he may have a faulty fuel pump or somthing else to blame for the lean conditions.

[Golden4g63child]

Alright, just got my freshly walbro 190 fuel pump installed. You guys think I should go back to the dyno this weekend as see what happens or hold of until I get some 550's and an afc? If I do decide to go back, what do you guys recommend me doing (how many psi, etc, etc?) Thanks for all of the suggestions/tips. Hopefully, I can get some more power out of her......

[oldmopwater]

You dont need 550s yet the pump should be enough do you have an air fuel gauge if so you can fuel tune off of the mas until you get an afc

[kpt4321]

Huh?

A narrowband A/F gauge is useless.

I don't know what you mean by "tune of(f?) the MAF."

[ohio98eclipse]

id say go 16psi since u got the fuel pump but without injectors u still cant go past that or u will ###### hit fuel kit. unless u tune the afc and run extremely lean or use race gas u might be able to squeeze out 19 psi

[oldmopwater]

You are right you cannot adjust the maf because these cars do not come equiped with maf sensors. You can however adjust the mas to do many things eliminate fuel cut richen or lean out your sytem with, you can raise the voltage to the mas allowing for more fuel or less by using different gauge wire I prefer to use 10ga wire though some ppl run 8 and 12.

[oldmopwater]

I meant to say by using a cheap datalogger i.e tmo, or whatever the freeware one is every one likes to run you can tune via the mas until you get an afc. It is inexpensive and works very well I didnot buy an afc until I was making about 270, and that was because I wanted to run 1.5 bar.

[saxrulez]

really lean

I'd wait to make the next trip to the dyno until you have the SAFC that way you can do something about your rich/lean conditions.

[kpt4321]

Originally Posted by oldmopwater

You are right you cannot adjust the maf because these cars do not come equiped with maf sensors. You can however adjust the mas to do many things eliminate fuel cut richen or lean out your sytem with, you can raise the voltage to the mas allowing for more fuel or less by using different gauge wire I prefer to use 10ga wire though some ppl run 8 and 12.

Again, ?

These cars come with MAF sensors.

You can't raise the voltage to the MAF/MAS, it is regulated to 5V out of the ECU.

Raising the voltage will not do anything positive for you, just screw up the baro and air temp signals.

Where are you coming up with this stuff?

[oldmopwater]

Originally Posted by kpt4321

Again, ?

These cars come with MAF sensors.

You can't raise the voltage to the MAF/MAS, it is regulated to 5V out of the ECU.

Raising the voltage will not do anything positive for you, just screw up the baro and air temp signals.

Where are you coming up with this stuff?

You are wrong to put it simply
What do you think blaha does ?

[LandoAWD]

Originally Posted by oldmopwater

You are wrong to put it simply
What do you think blaha does ?

Kyle is right. Blaha puts a 10k (or was it 20k) pot in line with the IAT circuit.

[nineD5_GS-T]

Get the pump installed with some 550's and an afc. Also get a logger of some sort. You need to make sure you are not pulling timing, which it looks like you are doing. Tuning is what is gonna make your car go faster, not boat loads of parts. Does your car still have a cat?

Those numbers are actually pretty good for your mod list etc. and only 15 psi. You can maybe squeeze 280hp out of a 14b, especially on a 2g head, throttlebody, etc. Get your fuel mods, do some tuning and hit the dyno again. 14:1 is soooo ####ing lean. Try to have it at about 12:1 at the leanest, especially on pump gas.

When you get the fuel, throw in some 100 octane, up the boost to 21, tune for good timing, and hit the dyno and be prepared for MUCH better numbers.

[kpt4321]

Originally Posted by oldmopwater

You are wrong to put it simply
What do you think blaha does ?

No, you're wrong.

First of all, the Blaha MAF *is* a modified MAF, which you said above could not be done.

Second of all, the Blaha MAF (as Kris said) puts a resistor on the intake temp line, to make up for the lower airflow signal.

[miteclgst]

kpt4321 is right, the MAS will not read any different if the voltage to it is raised. Most digital components require a 5V source for voltage and triggering. Digital chips have thresholds from say +4.5V to + 5.5V for which they will read "high" (aka binary "1"), anything else will be considered "low" (aka binary "0"). This means that unlike an audio amplifier, (Which is driven on the amplitude of the voltage waveform) the MAS will not respond positively from raising the triggering or source voltages. Actually raising the voltage levels will probably destroy the components much quicker. A simple analogy would be a soda machine, if the soda is $1.00 you won't get any extra if you put in a $1.50. Variables such as adding a potentiometer to the intake temperature circuit will effect what the computer reads and compensates for. This is due to the fact that the temperature circuit is an analog rather than digitial signal. Adding a series resistance will lower the current flowing through the circuit and trick the computer into subtracting more fuel to compensate for the "less dense" air that it thinks it is reading (density is proportional to temperature).