Converting 1G MAS to 2G MAS- i need help

[mopedology]

I need more flow! anyone with info on converting to the 2g Mass air flow sensor that flows 50% more air please help me. If you have one i have cash. thanks for any help you can give. -tom

 

[BatmanGSX]

50% more? I think not. Do you realize that the purpose of changing a MAS is not to get more "airflow", as most people think? Getting more airflow through the MAS is bad if you don't have at the very least an AFC but probably also larger injectors. In addition getting more airflow through the MAS is a bad idea if you have no clue why you are doing it.

No, "more power" is not the reason. You will not get anymore power by going to a bigger MAS unless you are outflowing the stocker and it is missing counts. I am sure you are not. Otherwise you just risk blowing your engine because of all the unmetered air entering in.

My advice is to leave your MAS alone unless you are hitting fuel cut.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Actually a 2G MAS will allow him to make more power before he hits fuel cut. It flows 22% more air than a 1G will, but does so at same Hz reading as a 1G. As long as he has injectors and AFC to go along with it, he's ok. But, just having AFC and 2G MAS only, that kind of defeats the purpose, since you are adding fuel in with the AFC (therefore raising Hz count the ECU sees), which in turn will make you hit fuel cut even sooner.

Mike

 

[jizzo007]

ok, i'm confused, i have been thinking about putting a 2g mas on my car but all this technical talk has me confused. should I do it or not? i have crower cams in my car and i think it might help them. suggestion??

 

[candela]

Follow what these two have said, you really sont need to do it unless your out flowing it or hitting fuel cut. Anytime I turn my boost up past 15psi (now that its been getting cooler) I hit fuel cut and its been tuned pretty decently. I dont have the money right now for a 2g maf, but think I need one because fuel cut really really sucks...

 

[lambertvr4]

I'm a big proponent of swapping to the 2G MAS over the stock 1G MAS. I swapped the HKS 1G MAS for a 2G MAS w/ K&N and noticed a bit of a difference. Not huge, but that HKS filter was the main reason I swapped. Not much of a filter. After some tuning my car did fine. SAFC, big Denso pump, and stock injectors (and rest). The Karman counts were lower w/ the 2G MAS than w/ the 1G MAS. I'd hit 2200Hz w/ the 1G MAS and only 1700Hz w/ the 2G MAS. Can't really say the car was faster or slower by times tho as I didn't A-to-B it. Felt faster after some tuning. EGTs were about the same.

I later swapped on the VPC w/ the same 450's and SAFC. I had a Supra pump, but the rest was still stock. Couldn't tell much difference. A little tuning and it felt pretty good, but I couldn't really say that it was worth the upgrade. I'll probably sell the VPC and get another 2G MAS setup when the car runs again.

I see where you're coming from w/ the 1G MAS, but I had a lot of good luck w/ the 2G MAS setup. And I've installed a few on other cars. All w/ good results. Most notably on a FWD 1G w/ a port job on the head. That car picked up a LOT w/ a quick swap to a 2G MAS and my SAFC settings. His 14B would run w/ my 16G/VPC. It was probably faster actually. I digress tho.

 

[BatmanGSX]

I think it's funny that most people say a 2G MAS is good or better or that a 1G MAS is good or better or that their Karmans dropped and that's good yet nobody seems to know anything about how the MAS works.

I could explain it all but I already have a million times and nobody seems to want to use the search button. Sh|t, I'm not even allowed to recommend that anyone use the search button. So instead, y'all can keep wondering how the MAS works and call it "technical talk" and use broad descriptive words such as "good" to describe different MAF sensors.

Have fun.

 

[Quacylla]

http://members.rogers.com/mrjackson9/MAF/MAF_Theory.htm

The 2G MAF seems to be a better unit. However a fully hacked 1G MAF (entire lower tube removed) can take you quite far with the proper tuning.

Some notes/tips on tuning properly with a fully hacked 1G MAF:

-harder to do with a 1990 since the fuel trims are so narrow
-best if you have the new style AFC and 550s. You can get it to work with stock injectors if your base pressure is high enough but your low 1000 rpm setting will be close to +50% to get it idling properly (if you can). 550s and stock pressure will be around +40% 1000 rpm low setting. The old style AFC can't adjust enough to get the idle into a good closed loop cycle.
-the hi settings on the AFC are way leaner the the low settings. This can cause problems under part throttle because the settings that make cruise happy end up being very rich at part throttle. Watching the o2 trim you'll see it drop right off to nothing as soon as you start accelerating in closed loop. How I solved this was to drop the TH points to 15% and 60% for my car (each will be a bit different). This way as soon as the ECU sees more then 15% throttle it starts averaging between the hi and low settings thus leaning out the mixture some. Worked wonders for me... no drivability hiccups or bogs like you hear about. I think this is the big one people miss with the hacked 1G MAF. Before it felt sluggish to respond to the trottle unless wot... now it's like stock. I think most people go to the 2G MAF and solve this little problem and write about the improvements but that's just a guess. I have a 2G MAF sitting in my basement but haven't had a reason to put it in yet.
-always tune with a datalogger.


Notes on the 2G MAF:
-flows less of the toal air thru the metered section (about 20% less)
-it's a shedder bar type of Karman MAF which means the bluff body actually sways to the oscilating votecies and that movement is directly translated into an electronic frequency signal.
-it will not overrun as quickly as the 1G MAF
-it will give more linear settings in your AFC then a fully hacked 1G MAF
-might be a better unit (better readings, quicker response)
-will take some work to get it to fit nicely in your 1G if you care about keeping it isolated from the hot engine bay air.
-will not need as much idle adjustment to stay in closed loop as a fully hacked 1G MAF.

 

[lambertvr4]

You know, I was referred to this page b/c there "are some smart guys" here, and supposedly none of the BS associated w/ some of the other sites. I'm really not seeing much difference tho. Lots of opinions and little respect for the ones that differ from the self proclaimed "guru's." Let's stop trying to force our own ideas and solutions on each other and try to expand our understanding.

"BatmanGSX" I believe I'm pointing at you here. If you have another opinion let me hear it, but you'd better put some facts in there. You started baggin on "mopedology" for wanting to upgrade to a 2G MAS w/ little explanation besides "don't do it." I simply added to the discussion what I've experienced. No cuts at you or the other guys. The sh!t worked on my car and countless others whether you "know" different or not.

"... yet nobody seems to know anything about how the MAS works."

How hard is it to understand?! It's a device used to measure the incoming air to the engine so that the proper amount of fuel can be added for the engine to run smoothly and efficiently. If I can do the same thing w/ a 2G MAS then I'm going to do it. It's less restrictive than the stock 1G MAS, it's easy to tune, and I can easily add larger injectors w/ minimal tuning. And you say "leave it alone?"

Alright, enough of the attitude. If I hurt your feelings just understand that I don't know you. You'll get over it and so will I. Instead of arguing about it, please feel free to voice your opinion about the "best" solution. None of this "Cuz I said so" crap tho.

(look below!)

 

[ninja0331]

Thank you lambertvr4, right on the spot.

The guys wants to put a damn 2G MAS and he asked for info not on whether you guys think it's "good" or "bad". Besides xhypno and two or three other guys here, does anyone know anything at all about DSM's?

I have 3 unanswered threads and two of them have been going on for the past 2 weeks. And all I get is "goo"d and "bad" c'mon guys, if you don't have something worth saying, don't say nothing at all!

 

[ninja0331]

excuse my last post, I was pissed at my eclipse for not idling like it was supposed to...

xhypno dude, email me and let's get together sometime.

 

[Quacylla]

Well there's 3 more posts that don't have anything to do with the topic ... well 4 now

It was a stupid question to begin with since there's been a VFAQ on how to do the conversion at www.vfaq.com for years. There's also lots of posts on the different boards he could have read up on. Plus he had no idea what the mod was going to do for him and how so people thought they could help him out a bit and set him straight.

There's a lot of information in my post about the mod (not specifically how to do because it's all in the VFAQ) if you would stop #@%#@%#@%#@%#@%ing and use you eyes and brains.

It should be common practice before posting to first check the VFAQs, then search at least this board for similar questions, then check the 1000 AAQ page... after all that and you still don't have an answer then post.

Please don't waste anymore webspace by replying like you did above.