Evo III 16g is a good turbo for daily driving, ive had mine on my car for over 10k miles with no problems and you can make some decent power with fuel injectors, fuel pump tuning etc. Its good for around 265-300 whp on a good tune. A good 50 trim that a lot of people reccomend is the FP Green, it can make anywhere from between 350-400 whp depending on your tune. And another good turbo is the Mitsubishi td-o6h 20g.

What does a big turbo have to do with sitting in traffic??

If you want spool, get a ball bearing turbo. Look at PTE's SCM 5061RE turbo. A similar discussion is going on here - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242217

50 trims suck and spool so slow you can get out and run beside the car faster.

The Evo III is fully spooled at idle and can support an infinite amount of horsepower.

Just ask.... anyone here but me.... http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241565


Get a 50 trim. It will not be the least bit less reliable.

Its good for around 265-300 whp on a good tune

Click to expand...

YOU LIE! Everyone told me its good for 350-400awhp all - day - long.


To the OP, if want to know what an Evo III does in the real world, I just got back from the dyno, check out my mods list.

25psi
93 octane + NOS octane booster
perfect timing curve peaking at 20* at redline
12.0 afr, dropping to 11.5 by redline

=

A whopping 282awhp and 270lb/ft. Do yourself a favor and get a real turbo.

DGajre777 said:

What does a big turbo have to do with sitting in traffic??

If you want spool, get a ball bearing turbo. Look at PTE's SCM 5061RE turbo. A similar discussion is going on here - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242217

Click to expand...

I don't want to wait till 4k rpm before I feel boost, want a low rpm spool up and carry me though the rpm range close to redline. Also will a bigger turbo not produce more heat? sitting in traffic in summer time plus the heat from the turbo will surely cause temps to raise in the engine bay.

looks like the 16g might be plent for a DD, and I hear it will be more reliable as it doesnt make as much power as the 50 trim meaning less wear and stress on engine parts.

MyBeatGSX said:

50 trims suck and spool so slow you can get out and run beside the car faster.

...

Get a 50 trim. It will not be the least bit less reliable.

Click to expand...

You may want to qualify your statments so the rest of us can understand what you're exactly saying.




EDIT:

Jeff822 said:

Its good for around 265-300 whp on a good tune.

Click to expand...

MyBeatGSX said:

YOU LIE! Everyone told me its good for 350-400awhp all - day - long.


To the OP, if want to know what an Evo III does in the real world, I just got back from the dyno, check out my mods list.

25psi
93 octane + NOS octane booster
perfect timing curve peaking at 20* at redline
12.0 afr, dropping to 11.5 by redline

=

A whopping 282awhp and 270lb/ft. Do yourself a favor and get a real turbo.

Click to expand...

So... you're agreeing with Jeff822 then. What has ShapeGSX done to get 11.8 quarter-mile times that you haven't? Or what about donmagicjuan?

fatboyq said:

I don't want to wait till 4k rpm before I feel boost, want a low rpm spool up and carry me though the rpm range close to redline. Also will a bigger turbo not produce more heat? sitting in traffic in summer time plus the heat from the turbo will surely cause temps to raise in the engine bay.

looks like the 16g might be plent for a DD, and I hear it will be more reliable as it doesnt make as much power as the 50 trim meaning less wear and stress on engine parts.

Click to expand...

It looks like you already have your mind made up with an EVO III 16G. FP Green which in my opinion is the most reliable 50trim out there, is expensive, but you won't get full spool up at a low rpm.

You got it backwards, a bigger turbo will produce less heat than a smaller turbo. If you are worried about temps in the engine bay, do the rewire and run both of them together or put a vent in the hood.

DGajre777 said:

You got it backwards, a bigger turbo will produce less heat than a smaller turbo.

Click to expand...

What is the thought process (or the tested results) here? That if a 4G63 is putting out 300whp with either an EVOIII16G or a 50 trim that the latter will not have to work as hard to reach the same numbers? Or perhaps it is because the turbine housing on the 50 trim is physically larger, and therefore is able to get rid of the hot exhaust gases easier (then again, this might go against the low spooling problem in low rpm range)? Or is it that the 50 trim "conceals" or "stores" heat better than the EVOIII16G because of the metals it is made up of? Or something else?

DGajre777 said:

If you are worried about temps in the engine bay, do the rewire and run both of them together

Click to expand...

Run both of what?

DSMunknown said:

What is the thought process (or the tested results) here? That if a 4G63 is putting out 300whp with either an EVOIII16G or a 50 trim that the latter will not have to work as hard to reach the same numbers? Or perhaps it is because the turbine housing on the 50 trim is physically larger, and therefore is able to get rid of the hot exhaust gases easier

Click to expand...

Correct and correct and correct.

To qualify my statements.... sarcasm, sarcasm, and lots more sarcasm. Read the thread I linkd to and you'll understand.


OP, you said you wanted to start seeing boost at 3,000rpm. Both of these turbo will do that. The 50 trim spool time is only marginally slower. My Shitvo III doesn't make full boost until 3,400rpm, even a non-BB 50 trim will do it at 3,500-3,600rpm.

And also be careful with the 'less power = less wear". Because you'll need to run higher boost on the small turbo to make the same power, its more like "same power = more wear" or "less power = same wear".

DSMunknown said:

What is the thought process (or the tested results) here? That if a 4G63 is putting out 300whp with either an EVOIII16G or a 50 trim that the latter will not have to work as hard to reach the same numbers? Or perhaps it is because the turbine housing on the 50 trim is physically larger, and therefore is able to get rid of the hot exhaust gases easier (then again, this might go against the low spooling problem in low rpm range)? Or is it that the 50 trim "conceals" or "stores" heat better than the EVOIII16G because of the metals it is made up of? Or something else?

Click to expand...

To add on to what MyBeatGSX said above, let us say that to make 280whp, you have to run the EVO III 16G at 25psi and to make the same whp, you have to run a 50trim at 21psi. The air charge of the 50trim will be cooler than that of the Evo III. As you turn the boost up, the turbo creates more heat. This is also why you need a bigger FMIC for a maxed out turbo, instead of a big turbo running at lower psi of boost.

DSMunknown said:

Run both of what?

Click to expand...

Both fans. Sorry.

So how come running 93+ octane and 25psi, nets you less power than almost anyone else running such a setup?

I'm not trying to start some massive debate like in the other thread, I'm just curious why your EvoIII spools at 3400 while some spool at 2900-3100 (bone stock 2.0L) and other people can reach 300hp but you can't.

Theres got to be more to this story than "the shitvoIII sucks".

Maybe you've been through all this before in other threads, but I'm curious why you don't have the success that others have had.
How is your compression? Can you post some numbers? Do you think your mismatched exhaust is the culprit (don't you have a 3" dp into a 2.5" catback or something funky?)?

EDIT: I saw in your profile that your plug gap is 0.25, I'm sure adjusting it won't gain you 30whp but the spec is .32, and we've (the community) tested 0.28 to be optimal. why are you running a smaller gap than 0.28?
Also I'm sorry for hijakcing - maybe these questions are better suited for a new thread? But then of course the point is moot if you're set on changing into a 50trim.

PieEyedPiper said:

Theres got to be more to this story than "the shitvoIII sucks".

Maybe you've been through all this before in other threads, but I'm curious why you don't have the success that others have had.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I was getting at in post #6.

PieEyedPiper said:

EDIT: I saw in your profile that your plug gap is 0.25, I'm sure adjusting it won't gain you 30whp but the spec is .32, and we've (the community) tested 0.28 to be optimal. why are you running a smaller gap than 0.28?

Click to expand...

Perhaps he is one of those individuals who have had better experiences with a smaller gapped plug.

As MrBoxx says here:

"In the case of turbo DSM's, many people choose to gap their plugs to .028". DSM'ers have had good experiences with slightly larger gaps (.030-.032") as well as with smaller gaps (.026"). The computer where I work suggests a gap of .032" for the spark plugs for our cars."

PieEyedPiper said:

Also I'm sorry for hijakcing - maybe these questions are better suited for a new thread?

Click to expand...

Probably, since the discussion has turned the focus from fatboyq to MyBeatGSX, or from fatboyq to abstract examples.

Everyone, let's try to keep the discussion civil and on-topic. The question was:

I plan on driving my dsm to work daily and have some fun on the street on friday night etc. I doubt I will see the track often if at all. with that in mind what is the quickest spooling turbo out there for the street. I want to pull to redline and start making boost around 3k rpm.

Click to expand...

If this is the case, the Evo3 16g will fit the bill. It's generally cheaper than most 50-trims (half the price of a Green) and DSM'ers have made excellent power numbers on it, with excellent reliability. As a daily driver with supporting mods, you could probably run above 16psi all day long with no problems and the spool characteristics that you're looking for.

THEN, later, if you change your car's goals, you can always upgrade to a 50-trim or larger turbo, based on your new goals.

Regarding the potential of the Evo3: As shown, it's possible for the Evo3 to make well over 300 horsepower when properly supported and tuned. Just because someone doesn't make a magic number on the dyno does not mean that this turbo is not ideal for someone else's goals. Please keep in mind that not everyone is looking for 400 hp. In fact, the original poster did not even mention a horsepower goal; only a quick-spooling street turbo that can run to redline. What about the Evo3 does not meet this criteria?

I've personally ran both and if your looking for a Really fun car to drive around time and do some occansional racing its the Evo 3 Hands down.

MrBoxx said:

What about the Evo3 does not meet this criteria?

Click to expand...

It doesn't pull to redline like a 50 trim does. If you're really in touch with the car you can feel where it stops making power (6,000rpm).

I'll answer the questions that were asked of me because it is completely relevant to the topic, he wants to know what an Evo III will do and I'm going to tell him. Just because other people make 400hp with it doesn't mean you or I will. I have every right to argue for the people stuck on the low end of its supposed capabilities.

PieEyed,

Everyone local to me (although no one here agrees, but screw them) that the exhaust is holding the difference to 300hp and probably more. But most people can do it on 20psi, why do I need 25psi? I have no idea. My motor is almost brand new, 30k on a rebuild. Haven't checked compression but I know its fine. The fact that I can boost leak test on a stone cold motor and next to nothing leaks past the rings means they're sealing pretty good.

The tiny plug gap is to keep the horrible COP setup happy (nobody buy one, they're garbage). I'll be ditching it as soon as I stop being too lazy to go buy new stock coils.

I'd love to know who's Evo is making 22psi at 2,900rpm, or even 3,200rpm.

I don't know what's wrong with my car or my dyno, but its just not working for me. With those numbers NO ONE is going to argue that I suck at tuning or that its my fault. 12:1 and NO knock, what more do you want?

My Evo 3 Spooled 20psi right at 3200 and made peak power on the dyno at 6000 and at 6800 had only dropped off maybe 10hp.

But then again I only dynoed 270awhp on that pathetic little piece of trash but I still ran 111mph traps on 20psi and pump gas...

Ohh and Changing nothing but the turbo from the Evo 3 to the 50 trim netted me 1-2mph higher Traps. I'd take 6-800 rpm in spool over 2mph trap speed increase anyday in a fun street car.

do you have a lot of free time to fine tune your car, if you were to get an evo3; in hopes of making over 300hp? if not, do you plan on using any kind of injection (water/meth/no2)? or how about cams? if the answer is no, no, and no then id say go for the 50 trim. however, you said you wanted it for street fun so im assuming a short distance run only, so id say just get the evo3. do you have a hp goal?

Interesting.
You mentioned that you might try to do a dyno run with an open downpipe, did you ever get around to that?
I too would suggest that your catback is holding you away from that 300hp mark, even though a 2.5" is supposedly capable of up to 350whp+.
It stands to reason that, the above being true, it is the combo of the 3" into 2.5" that is causing your power "decrease". Also in combination of your ultra-rare dyno.
I'd like to see some proof from the nay-sayers that that isn't causing a significant decrease in potential power from your setup.

But yeah, I'm not sure what else a guy can do if adequate fuel/tuning/intercooling/compression is present and accounted for. Better luck with your 50 trim

CanadianTSi said:

My Evo 3 Spooled 20psi right at 3200 and made peak power on the dyno at 6000 and at 6800 had only dropped off maybe 10hp.

But then again I only dynoed 270awhp on that pathetic little piece of trash but I still ran 111mph traps on 20psi and pump gas...

Ohh and Changing nothing but the turbo from the Evo 3 to the 50 trim netted me 1-2mph higher Traps. I'd take 6-800 rpm in spool over 2mph trap speed increase anyday in a fun street car.

Click to expand...

I realize you lost 6-800 rpm in spool, but you also gained over 100hp. Interesting how this only netted you a 1-2mph increase in trap speed. That could be considered well within the margin of error of going to the track on a different day of the week combined with Special K instead of Wheaties for the driver's breakfast.

Thanks,

Some great info in this thread. Reliablility is going to be important for me I dont want to be on the shoulder of the highway with the blinkers on becuase this or that broke. I just want a fun street car that can put some lenghts on cars that you run into everyday. Not trying to run 11s just want a quick not fast daily driver. I want to be somewhat sneaky meaning that a .50 trim you need a fmic and that is a dead giveaway that car has balls. not that I mind that too much, I just dont want to race or get revved at by all the civics, preludes, mustangs, camaros on the street.

maybe I should try to get a ride in both cars and see/feel which one I like better. 2900-3100 sounds great.

And just to add all my runs were done with my Patented 10 Minute set it and forget it Pocketlogger Tune...

dont have a magic hp number in mind. Im new to all this comming from a fox body mustang. Trying to learn all the turbo lingo etc. Lets just say I want something that will keep up with/if not beat most head, cam, intake mustangs etc

He still needs to buy a car guys....
Then he'll have to do maintance before any Evo III or 50 Trim gets dropped into.... a car that he doesn't even own yet.

He's worried about reliablilty for a DD, but he has his plan all wrong.
If he gets a 1g, he'll be working on it for a month straight just to get it up to snuff.
Then supporting mods of course, exhaust, intake, boost gauge, fuel pump, afpr....
Then, he should run the 14b into the ground before even thinking about a 50 trim.
Learn to tune what you have to begin with, then once that's fully supported and maxed out, drop in the larger turbo.

Nevertheless, this is a good thread.

fatboyq said:

Reliablility is going to be important for me I dont want to be on the shoulder of the highway with the blinkers on becuase this or that broke. I just want a fun street car that can put some lenghts on cars that you run into everyday. I just dont want to race or get revved at by all the civics, preludes, mustangs, camaros on the street.

Click to expand...

Now, with that said...
When a T-Belt goes wrong in these engines, all hell breaks loose.
Search and you will see.

There is a shit ton of work that needs to be done to most cars especially older DSM's.
Take care of her, and she'll take care of you.

Oh, and just one more thing.
If you do get revved on by any of those POS cars, do the rest of the world a favor, take it to the track...

CanadianTSi said:

And just to add all my runs were done with my Patented 10 Minute set it and forget it Pocketlogger Tune...

Click to expand...

Lucky you. Can we trade cars? I spent weeks getting mine right.

fatboy, based on what you just posted, I'd say go with the Evo III. My car easily smokes anything I've come across on the street, but its definatly been a struggle getting there though. And don't think you won't need a front mount. You'll need a front mount more with the Evo than you will with a 50 trim.

Also keep in mind, neither will be unreliable. That shouldn't even be part of the decision.



PiedEye, No I never did get the catback off of there. I was more concerned about getting the tune right for the car in street condition than I was about just hitting a number. What I have now is an underpowered pile of trash that I have to put $10 worth of octane boost into at every fill because MHI can't make a wastegate that functions correctly.

The 248/248 dyno is another factor. Its hard to say if it reads low because I don't know anyone that has dyno'd there and then dyno'd on a standard low/high mass dynojet. It seems to be very accurate with the FWD cars, our Hondas always ran what the dyno numbers suggested. I'm thinking of taking it to Pruven which is right down the street from me (very expensive) and seeing what it put down there just for the heck of it (I am afraid of the unequal mass dynos though, I don't know what people are thinking putting their cars on there). Its definatly faster than 282hp on the street. Unfortunately I'm going to miss the track day this friday so we may never know what it did with this turbo. I handed a CTS-V its ass 20-100mph and was still pulling, and those are 400hp and trap 110+mph, so its definatly making more than 282hp.