Before I start, let me say that is not a X vs Y turbo thread. Current mods in profile. I have done research on these 2 turbos for countless days and I can't decide.

Goal:
To have a fast street car and occasionally (maybe once a month) at the drag strip.

Future Mods:

• Walboro 190 fuel pump (Don't want a 255)
• ECU Plus (don't need a MAFT + SAFC + logger + EPROM ECU)
• Wideband O/2 input for ECU Plus
• Manifold mounted 38mm Tail External Wastegate recirculated into the downpipe
• FMIC, new BOV, injectors... all the usual stuff in the tuning guide.

If I get the T28, it will have a 75 shot of Zex nitrous for top end.
A T28 with the external gate will prevent the turbo from spinning like crazy with the nitrous.

If I get the EVO III, I won't have the nitrous shot.
An EVO III with the external gate will increase spool time and I won't have to worry about any boost creep.

Concerns and questions:
1) Which one will yield a faster time at the 1/4 mile and fastest 0-60 time? The T28 on nitrous or the EVO III without nitrous? Yes, I saw the 1/4 times, but I did not find one person running the FP Big T28 with an external wastegate on nitrous in an AWD (there must be a reason)

2) If a 2G AWD can run 12.5ish on the FP Big T28 alone, why won't the 75 shot of nitrous push it in the 11s? This way I have a fast spooling turbo and nitrous for top end at the track.

EDIT:
The T28 will be boosting to 22psi with power from the engine AFTER the nitrous. If the nitrous increases HP from 210 to 260 (since Zex regulates it by bottle pressure), the T28 will be boosting to 22psi from an engine output of 260HP.

Go with the 16g the power will always be there if you need it and you won't have to spend extra cash filling up that bottle.

If you want to have faster 0-60 more often go with the EVO III. Since you only going to the strip once a month maybe it wouldn't you want the power more on the street. Plus nitrous just beats the crap out of the engine even though its a 75 shot. I'm just against using nitrous often on an engine that is not built. Just my 2 cents.

im swapping over from the FPBig T-28 to the EvoIII 16G now.

siceclipse said:

im swapping over from the FPBig T-28 to the EvoIII 16G now.

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Thats crazy! Why not go bolt on 50 trim. Going from a T28 to a 16g is a waste!

the EvoIII is the decision i should have made in the first place. plus it is the last turbo i will upgrade to. Originaly i wanted a little more bite outta my car, then i rode in my friends GSX with a big 16g and slapped my forehead.

I understand what you mean but my reasons are my own. I will say however at i bought my 16g used at a price i couldnt refuse.

Originaly from FP with porting (700 Miles was bought in late Dec. and taken off in Feb), NEW Mitsu coolant lines, FP oil return and Extrem PSI S.S. J-Pipe for front mount (no fan shaving)..... ALL for 450.

originally i was only getting the turbo, but he threw all the other stuff in seeings how he didnt need it and couldnt reuse any of it.

siceclipse said:

the EvoIII is the decision i should have made in the first place. plus it is the last turbo i will upgrade to. Originaly i wanted a little more bite outta my car, then i rode in my friends GSX with a big 16g and slapped my forehead.

I understand what you mean but my reasons are my own. I will say however at i bought my 16g used at a price i couldnt refuse.

Originaly from FP with porting (700 Miles was bought in late Dec. and taken off in Feb), NEW Mitsu coolant lines, FP oil return and Extrem PSI S.S. J-Pipe for front mount (no fan shaving)..... ALL for 450.

originally i was only getting the turbo, but he threw all the other stuff in seeings how he didnt need it and couldnt reuse any of it.

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Sorry to sound like a jerk. Just curious to as why you didn't go bigger, but for that price, it isn't too bad. Let us know how it feels after the swap
Jon

RedRex02 said:

Thats crazy! Why not go bolt on 50 trim. Going from a T28 to a 16g is a waste!

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Another 50hp is a waste? To upgrade to a larger turbo generally means a large expense in the wastegate department and O2 housing department and the pain in the ass department.

Personally, I wouldn't run nitrous with the T28. That tiny T25 thrust bearing wasn't made for spinning that fast.

RedRex02 said:

Sorry to sound like a jerk. Just curious to as why you didn't go bigger, but for that price, it isn't too bad. Let us know how it feels after the swap
Jon

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Dont worry i intend on settleing the Big T-28 or 16g argument with my own records and feelings, as well as my friends opinions (they ride with me a lot)

SHAPE:

Im really looking forward to the 16G.
Seeing your past posts really makes me happy with my decision. i know i wont see your #'s with my 560's bit with NewEngland 93 octane and 20psi, i think i will be happy with the outcome.

ShapeGSX said:

Personally, I wouldn't run nitrous with the T28. That tiny T25 thrust bearing wasn't made for spinning that fast.

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Why would the thrust bearing/turbine spin that fast with an external wastegate? I thought that the point of an external gate is for the gases to bypass the turbo and prevent it from spinning fast under excessive pressure. I read on here that FP uses a 360* thrust bearing on their FP turbos.

And congrats on running 11s on the EVO III turbo.

siceclipse said:

im swapping over from the FPBig T-28 to the EvoIII 16G now.

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Send that t-28 my way!

The T28 with the nitrous will probably be a little quicker but the extra stress on the motor, cost of filling the bottle, and an additional tuning element just isnt worth to me. I myself have upgraded from a T28 running 12.2@110 on pump to an Evo 3 and let me tell you that the gains are really amazing out of a similar sized turbo. Get the Evo 3, you wont be dissapointed

DGajre777 said:

Why would the thrust bearing/turbine spin that fast with an external wastegate? I thought that the point of an external gate is for the gases to bypass the turbo and prevent it from spinning fast under excessive pressure. I read on here that FP uses a 360* thrust bearing on their FP turbos.

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What I understand is that the addition of nitrous increases exhaust volume so quickly that the wastegate can't react quickly enough, causing a large spike in turbo RPM. Larger turbos that aren't running near their terminal RPM can sustain this without damage. Smaller turbos that are already running near their terminal RPM may sustain damage from such an RPM spike.

evo316g with nitrous.

ShapeGSX said:

What I understand is that the addition of nitrous increases exhaust volume so quickly that the wastegate can't react quickly enough, causing a large spike in turbo RPM. Larger turbos that aren't running near their terminal RPM can sustain this without damage. Smaller turbos that are already running near their terminal RPM may sustain damage from such an RPM spike.

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Interesting. I guess this is why there aren't people running T28s with nitrous on a 1/4 mile track. If I pay $900 for a T28 turbo, I want it to last. I only know of one member with a GST running nitrous on a T28, but I don't think he has been to the track yet. Even if he did, I won't be able to get an estimate of what I'll run since I'm AWD.

90tsiawd said:

evo316g with nitrous.

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The stock 7 bolt can't handle the EVO III at 22-25 psi and a 75 shot of nitrous.

DGajre777 said:

Interesting. I guess this is why there aren't people running T28s with nitrous on a 1/4 mile track. If I pay $900 for a T28 turbo, I want it to last. I only know of one member with a GST running nitrous on a T28, but I don't think he has been to the track yet. Even if he did, I won't be able to get an estimate of what I'll run since I'm AWD.


The stock 7 bolt can't handle the EVO III at 22-25 psi and a 75 shot of nitrous.

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Its all in the tuning.
Years ago I used to run a 60 trim with a 75 shot in my talon with a completely stock never open long block.

ShapeGSX said:

Another 50hp is a waste? To upgrade to a larger turbo generally means a large expense in the wastegate department and O2 housing department and the pain in the ass department.

Personally, I wouldn't run nitrous with the T28. That tiny T25 thrust bearing wasn't made for spinning that fast.

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50HP! So you are saying going from a Big T28 to a Big 16g, you will gain 50hp!?
I do not know about that.

RedRex02 said:

50HP! So you are saying going from a Big T28 to a Big 16g, you will gain 50hp!?
I do not know about that.

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Whats the most hp someone has made with a big T28?

RedRex02 said:

50HP! So you are saying going from a Big T28 to a Big 16g, you will gain 50hp!?
I do not know about that.

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36lb/min vs 42lb/min? I was actually being conservative.

ShapeGSX said:

36lb/min vs 42lb/min? I was actually being conservative.

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The most I've seen from DSMlink is 34.1lbs/min on my FP T28. Are those numbers the max that the turbo can effectively produce? I would be willing to swap out for a big 16g if it would provide that much more flow without losing too much spool time. The best time I've gone is a 12.43@110(FPT28) just for refrence.

According to FP, the FP BigT28 is a 36lb/min compressor.

On my car, I have seen as much as 44.1lb/min with the Evo III 16G on a really cold day. But on average, I see 42 to 43lb/min. Cams required, of course. And yes, I think that is just about the max you could expect.

Figure 10hp per every 1 lb/min. 42 - 34 = 8. So 80hp.

Figure 10hp per every 1mph. 118 - 110 = 8. So 80hp.

It pretty much adds up.

Yes, there is some pretty dodgy math going on here.

ShapeGSX said:

According to FP, the FP BigT28 is a 36lb/min compressor.

On my car, I have seen as much as 44.1lb/min with the Evo III 16G on a really cold day. But on average, I see 42 to 43lb/min. Cams required, of course. And yes, I think that is just about the max you could expect.

Figure 10hp per every 1 lb/min. 42 - 34 = 8. So 80hp.

Figure 10hp per every 1mph. 118 - 110 = 8. So 80hp.

It pretty much adds up.

Yes, there is some pretty dodgy math going on here.

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Well you said with cams it was 42lb's. So without cams, what do you think it would be. I am not trying to be a dick, I just do not see it THAT much of a difference, or worth the swap. Why not keep the T28 and go with a nice set of HKS 264/272 cams.
Lemme know if you know the flow numbers without cams.
Jon

RedRex02 said:

Well you said with cams it was 42lb's. So without cams, what do you think it would be. I am not trying to be a dick, I just do not see it THAT much of a difference, or worth the swap. Why not keep the T28 and go with a nice set of HKS 264/272 cams.
Lemme know if you know the flow numbers without cams.
Jon

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Since we are comparing numbers, this question is for people who have had both turbos on a 2G AWD - Which would have a lower 0-60 time the FP Big T28 or EVO III 16G? (both without nitrous).

It is my understanding that the T28 spools faster, but doesn't the EVO III hit harder but spool up slower compared to the T28?

EDIT: Forgot the question mark.

DGajre777 said:

Since we are comparing numbers, this question is for people who have had both turbos on a 2G AWD - Which would have a lower 0-60 time the FP Big T28 or EVO III 16G? (both without nitrous).

It is my understanding that the T28 spools faster, but doesn't the EVO III hits harder but spools up slower compared to the T28.

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Spoolup is incredibly fast with both of these turbos. I don't think it is a factor. I have enough torque at launch to spin all 4 tires at will. Traction is really what counts the most.

So it really comes down to traction and power. The Evo III makes more power.

I pull [email protected] in the 1/8th with the Evo III.

I've measured my 0-60 time on my datalogger to be about 3.1 seconds.

RedRex02 said:

Well you said with cams it was 42lb's. So without cams, what do you think it would be. I am not trying to be a dick, I just do not see it THAT much of a difference, or worth the swap. Why not keep the T28 and go with a nice set of HKS 264/272 cams.
Lemme know if you know the flow numbers without cams.

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My car has cams. You need aftermarket cams to get the most out of any setup, period.

I would guess that with cams you would get close to FP's rating for the T28, which is 36lb/min.

Maybe ~50hp isn't worth a turbo swap to you. To some people, it is.