Opinions on Midwest Road Courses

[Elvenhome21]

I am curious what peoples opinion are on tracks in the midwest. Likes, dislikes, technical parts of a track, scary parts.



Autobahn
Mid america
Mid ohio
Putnum
Gratton
Road America
Blackhawk
USA Int (shawano)

or tracks within reasonable distance from Milwaukee/Chicago

 

[mavisky]

I've only driven road america before, and that was in a stock 98 talon. I'd have to say that the Caroussel was a non-event in that car, but I could see it being a bit hair in a high powered RWD car. The entrance into the rear concrete walled section at 100+ can be a bit creepy as well.

Mid-Ohio has a nice little off-camber hilltop cresting corner after the switchbacks.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Yeah the kink after the caroussel is were 50% of RWD cars lose it, they lift when they go through there and it unloads the weight from the rear and it sends them around. Suprisingly this year at the fall mfba 2 cars totaled it after turn 13, one was a gvr4 and the other was an rx8. Both paint marks on the wall were within 3 feet of each other.

 

[stealthTT]

Yeah the kink after the caroussel is were 50% of RWD cars lose it, they lift when they go through there and it unloads the weight from the rear and it sends them around. Suprisingly this year at the fall mfba 2 cars totaled it after turn 13, one was a gvr4 and the other was an rx8. Both paint marks on the wall were within 3 feet of each other.

It wasn't a gvr4. It was a 3000GT VR4. Here's pics:

http://www.ink3s.org/forum/showpost.php?p=12031&postcount=1

5th picture down you can see the red paint on the wall where the car hit head on.
Then further down the wall there is more paint where it rotated and hit the back end.



Turn 13 has a little bump that'll unsettle the car if you're not careful. Supposedly they are tearing out the bridge over the turn and fixing the little bump. They're going to build a new bridge to go straight from the gate to the paddock instead of driving a u-shape like we do now.

 

[underradar92]

Crap! That was turning into my favorite turn. Blind, slightly off camber at the exit, slide a bit when you apex late enough... Safetycrats.

 

[Elvenhome21]

I mis typed the vr4, I lost my camera on sunday and it had a ton of pictures of the vr4, rx8, viper, and that mazda. I think we left it sit on the edge of the truck bed and it fell off.

do you have anymore pics of the weekend

 

[stealthTT]

Crap! That was turning into my favorite turn. Blind, slightly off camber at the exit, slide a bit when you apex late enough... Safetycrats.

It's one of the great corners at RA because your speed is directly proportional to the size of your cajones. But good news, they don't plan to change it that much. Word from the safety director at RA, is yes, they plan to take the bridge out, smooth out the bump, and provide a bigger run-off before the wall. So we'll still have a slightly off camber blind corner, but now when we mess up we'll have more of a run-off and no bump to further upset the car's suspension. I think it was a wise decision.

p.s. The safety director also said the reason they haven't provided more of a run-off at the Kink is that they don't own the land on the other side of the fence.

 

[stealthTT]

I mis typed the vr4, I lost my camera on sunday and it had a ton of pictures of the vr4, rx8, viper, and that mazda. I think we left it sit on the edge of the truck bed and it fell off.

do you have anymore pics of the weekend

Sucks about the camera. I don't have any pics. I'm usually armpit deep keeping SlowOldPoop's car running.

I know lots of people take pics though. I usually look on other forums after the event or google search for pics.

 

[1LE]

Putnam Park - Ah, the memories... Of sheer terror at having my brake pedal hit the floor while braking from 125mph for turn 1 It came out alright though, somehow I managed to cling to the road, mostly sideways and make it around the corner... Nice course overall except for the horrible slow 90 degree turn in the middle. It's like 2 great race course designers got together to design it, started going opposite directions, then met THERE and couldn't agree on a GOOD way to connect the 2 parts of the track

You didn't mention Nelson Ledges... A little further east, but I really enjoy it. You have to watch for deer in one section, and the pit lane still isn't refinished (crazy rough), but the rest of it has been re-done in the last few years and is pretty nice. I'll probably be out there a couple times next summer...

 

[Elvenhome21]

It's one of the great corners at RA because your speed is directly proportional to the size of your cajones. But good news, they don't plan to change it that much. Word from the safety director at RA, is yes, they plan to take the bridge out, smooth out the bump, and provide a bigger run-off before the wall. So we'll still have a slightly off camber blind corner, but now when we mess up we'll have more of a run-off and no bump to further upset the car's suspension. I think it was a wise decision.

p.s. The safety director also said the reason they haven't provided more of a run-off at the Kink is that they don't own the land on the other side of the fence.

Normally right as I hit the rumble strip on the right side coming into 13, I stab the brakes just to load the front and then its full throttle till 14.

6 is a real goofy one for me though, I almost always overshout just that little bit and I hit the rumbles.

I haven't heard of Nelson Ledges but after looking at a map I probably won't ever get to see it being that its almost 9 hours away.

Putnum looks like a really cool track, line d looks sick to do in a car. and the loop.
Plus I would like to run it with circle, four indivdual seperate turns. That would be the ultimate in different.

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[Slow old poop]

ROAD AMERICA

Basically, a horsepower track. Bring all you got.
At RA, it's go very, very fast down a long, long straight, brake, go through a few twisty bits, then go very, very fast down a long, long straight. I hit 140 mph three times a lap at RA.

When taking the Kink at Road America, tap the brakes at the last set of gators on the left, turn in, and floor it. I always go through in 5th gear at about 110, to keep from putting too much power down whilst the car is on the hairy edge of adhesion. The best I've ever done through there is 115, with a Vette on my butt. Maybe with Hoosiers next year it won't be so scary.

At 13, the secret is late apex at the last set of gators, slice across the apex and let the car drift way wide to the right. Just as you think you've run out of road, you'll find a nice patch of concrete where an access road enters the track. The little bump is OK, because it sort of throws you onto the patch. If you don't know the patch is there and try to keep it on the track, that's when you get in trouble from the bump. Like the Elf says, it's flat on the throttle from the entry to 13 to braking for 14.

The Carousel is very tough to learn, and different people take different lines through there. I've tried everything. The one that seems to work best is: On initial turn in, aim for the seam in the center of the track, and hold the wheel in that position. The car will track the seam for a while, then work its way down to the right edge of the track, until it clips the last gator on the right and you can unwind the wheel for the short straight leading to the kink.

AUTOBAHN
Two courses --North and South-- both very badly designed. No rhythm to either one. The South course is the best. The North course is just plain boring. On the North course, the first turn--a medium left after the front straight--leads to a 100 yard straight to a hairpin right. The secret here is to nail the throttle after 1 for a brief spurt of acceleration before braking hard for 2. You'll find that most cars are coasting between 1 and 2, so you can eat them up. (There's no COASTING in racing!)

BLACKHAWK
Haven't run it for several years, and it's been repaved since then. Great track.

MIDAMERICA MOTORPLEX
My home track. We run a lot of one-day, test 'n tune events there, with about 40 cars total in two or three run groups. You get all the laps you can take. A great, wide-open, no-obstacle track. You can't hit anything except a hay bale. Great opportunities for "straightlining" corners in three different locations where other cars are either coasting or whipping back and forth across the track. Come out with us, and I'll show you.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

Most the events I've seen at putnam leave the front straight completely intact and they completely ignore the chicane at all.

 

[Elvenhome21]

I have seen two different styles for the Carousel, If you have ever watched Nigel Hendrick movies on google video, search Road america nigel and you get all his in cars.

But anyways nigel goes through the carousel in the middle of the track and pumps the gas, granted his car is AWD but by pumping the gas I doesn't really kill boost like you need it to. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7981418453682401680&q=ROad+america+nigel&hl=en

I always tried to be out as far to the outside under the bridge and shoot to the inside and basically have the inside tires almost in the grass, and have a constant throttle position. I could go through there at 70 on entry and be at 85 right as you hit that dip coming out.

As far as the Kink I haven't really be able to flat foot it like I wanted to yet, but stock touring tires have shit for grip.
But this is what the kink is like if you try flat footing it and don't drive the corner right.
He messed up by way to early of entry and if your going to flat foot it you have to have your right tires in the grass on the inside to give your car as much of a round corner and as much room as possible. Thats at least how an instructor told me to go through it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1339440231400552014&q=ROad+america&hl=en

It suck that my car had stock turbo yet, next year I hope my GSX is done to make the spring MFBA, but by the way RA looks right now, there might not be a spring race. http://www.mfba.org/showthread.php?t=46446

Jason

 

[Pro3racer]

I'm going to Blackhawk in April for an autocross learning event thingy. I'm just going to get some solid laps in. I've been to USAIR, and it is extremely tight and technical. Huge elevation changes, but i am constantly at redline 2nd gear, and quickly go into 3rd once or twice a lap. Its a karting track, not a car track.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Let me know when the Blackhawk and USAIR dates are I will definately tag along for them. I have been dying to see USAIR since they reconfigured it.

 

[schemauer]

I really didn't have much fun ar USAIR the one time I went. It's a cool track and all - but just a bit tight for my car and my preferences. I ran hotter oil and water temps there than any other track I've been at simply because of the slower speeds; had to come in a few times because of this. The track would be great with a little CRX or something, but just remember that it's a cart track.

I've driven Road America many times since the early '90's and most of what's mentioned above is great info on the Carousel and Kink. Above all I think your car and how it handles has a lot to do with how you approach those two corners.

In the Carousel I generally take the corner about in the middle of the track as this is where the car seems to hook up the best. By the last 1/3 of the corner I'm full on the gas and aiming to just touch the end of the rumble strips on the right side of the track. I lift for a split second just before turning in for the Kink. Then you have to commit to a line and plant your foot on the floor through the corner. My Archer car will carry almost 8-9 mph more through that corner than my '95 GSX did.

Also - in turn 13 - there is a utility pole on the outside of turn 14 that you can see as you come under the bridge. If you let the car drift out towards this pole you'll end up just about right as far as corner exit....on the "pad" just to the right side of the actual track.

 

[Elvenhome21]

I know I could gain a good 5 seconds a lap if I could do late apexing but being a circle track racer for so many years its next to impossible to get in the mind set. Plus having anything better than touring tires would help a ton also.

Also USAIR I realize its tight but I just want to go up there mainly just to see it, and of course turn some laps. But I am used to very tight tracks to, 141 speedway isn't very wide of a track either and yet we can get 4 wide during an enduro and survive, It more of just trusting your neighboor than anything. Plus it seems to be a totally different mind set when its a race only car rather then a street car.

 

[Pro3racer]

Blackhawk Friday April 20th, $150, Madison Sports Car Club

USAIR schedule:Sunday May 13th

Sunday June 3rd

Sunday July 22nd

Sunday September 16th

Sunday October 14th

You need to register on myautoevents.com for the shawano dates. I can post that when it gets nearer. I will be at the one on the 3rd more than likely, the 13th is finals weekend for me, so i dunno.

 

[Elvenhome21]

If anybody else has any more dates for the tracks listed above please post them, also if you find a price or what the normal price is that would be great to.

 

[Pro3racer]

USAIR will be max of 80 dollars, i wish i could remember the exact price, but it is no higher than that ever.

 

[MIdsm]

http://www.gingermanraceway.com/