Frozen Rotors?? Brake Rotor help

[BigTDogg]

Hey guys, I'm doing the brakes on my friends newly aquired 1992 Eagle Talon (2WD, NA, 5 Sp)

Front calipers came off fine. But the rotors are another story. Are these rotors any different than typical Japanese FWD rotors? I placed in the removal screws and began threading them. Then I began turning them. They cracked the rotor hat (OEM rotors, hat is refering to the mounting area) surrounding the threaded holes.

Do I need to remove the castle nut to remove the rotor? Are the rotors frozen (rusted) to the hub? We've tried propane torching the rotor to no avail. I know picture speak 1000 words, but I have none available right now.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Including tips for the rears.

 

[DarthBulk]

Guess what...I had the exact same problem as you! My front rotors were frozen on like nothing I had ever seen, especially the drivers side. No, you do NOT need to take that castle nut off (I assume you are referring to the axle nut). You just need to do that bolt-trick like is described in the vfaq's. If you took your caliper off, and the caliper bracket, the rotor should just fall off. If not, it is corroded in place. So use the bolt trick, soak it good with Liquid Wrench first, and hammer on the rotor every now and then, and hopefully it will pop off. Mine eventually did...

 

[BigTDogg]

I found that vFAQ post moments after I had a thought to search rusted rotors, instead of frozen rotors.

Thanks, I'm going to try that tonight

 

[AWDPetmitsu]

I recommend spraying the center of the rotor and where the studs protrude, liberally with PB Blaster and letting it soak for a while. Then take a 3 lb hammer and hit it on the inside of the rotor at the space that is occupied by the caliper. Turn the rotor and repeat at different spots until the rotor pops off. If it still is tight, hit the center (hat) all around to loosen and try again.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by BigTDogg

...
I placed in the removal screws and began threading them. Then I began turning them. They cracked the rotor hat (OEM rotors, hat is refering to the mounting area) surrounding the threaded holes.
...

Since nobody mentioned it the rotor that cracked is garbage, you can't stick it back on for should it break and they loose brakes it's on your head.

If push comes to shove you could rent a torch and heat it up. You may have to keep wet rags stuffed behind so it doesn't ruin the wheel bearing from all the heat. Of course all the banging may have dented the races already.

Remember this is not your doing, you did not expect all the rust and if you are getting paid then you need to tell the owner what has happened and what it may take to fix. You don't want to be spending a week on this and getting $25 for your time. These are unforseen circumstances that you could not have anticipated. Put some old lug nuts on the studs so if you miss with the hammer it doesn't ruin them too.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[BigTDogg]

Thanks to all the replies.

This my freinds car, I'm doing the work in my spare time, for the cost of a case of good beer

Since nobody mentioned it the rotor that cracked is garbage, you can't stick it back on for should it break and they loose brakes it's on your head.

We have new rotors, remaned calipers and new pads to use. I just need to get the old f&%$ers off.

The screw through the mounting holes on the upright worked for the passenger side very well, however the driver side is significantly more difficult. The bolt likes to hide under the lip it is supposed to pick up on.

I'm trying to scavenge a steel plate at work to see if I can put that between.

This is the most rediculous brake job I have ever done. This car must have sat for some time, or was thoroughly neglected.

 

[DarthBulk]

I hear you. My drivers side disc was almost impossible to get off too, and that stupid bolt kept sliding off the lip too. And of course you would know that the disc is junk if it is cracked...who wouldn't? I don't think it is neglect that causes the rotors to stick so bad though...I think there may be some galvanic corrosion going on between the disc and the hub...

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by DarthBulk
...

And of course you would know that the disc is junk if it is cracked...who wouldn't? I don't think it is neglect that causes the rotors to stick so bad though...I think there may be some galvanic corrosion going on between the disc and the hub...

You just never know the level of competency around here so it's better to err on the cautious side. Neglect comes in various forms including inspecting brakes which requires removing the wheels and noting rust, caliper and disk float. Chances are the hub was painted or treated from the factory, would be unusual if it were not. If it's a replacement hub then it may not have been by some previous installer and would be prudent to do once it is apart. This is just common courtesy when installing new rotors. Brake fluid gets on them and rust underneath the paint.

As for the galvanic action probably not a factor from steel to cast iron. However states that salt the roads is a BIG factor for it will get into every place it can. Easy to spot those cars, rocker panels with cancer holes, floor pan that you can stick you finger through, bondo where there was no accident. Aluminum castings with white powder that wipes off on your hand. You just know when one of those rolls in the shop you got trouble from the get go.

You should power wire brush the hub so the mating surface on the new rotor doesn't bridge up from the rust and cause it to not rotate true. It will shimmy like a balance problem which you can waste hours fixing everything else.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[BigTDogg]

I got that bastardly drivers side disc off last night. The bolt kept slipping under the lip, so finally, I decided to try an old brake pad, pad side towards the rotor, and used the VFAQ method of bolt push-off. That glorious pop came quickly, but only after I upped the leverage to a 1/2" drive ratchet.

Unfortunately, the caliper bolt/pin sheared off in the torque plate/caliper mounting bracket. The thing was completely seized, no grease what so ever. I need a new pin and plate, but it doesn't look like Autozone carries them. I'm going to try NAPA and CAP, PepBoys and Advanced auto parts before I try a dealer.

BTW, GTM, you are right, you can never be too cautious when giving advice, especially on a car forum. If you assume someone is more capable than they are, and they don't think to ask for help, they may hurt them selves or their car. Darwinism, .

So in short, I hope to be done tonight with the most fustrating brake job I've done in recent times. Thanks to everyone for your help.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by BigTDogg
I got that bastardly drivers side disc off last night. The bolt kept slipping under the lip, so finally, I decided to try an old brake pad, pad side towards the rotor,
...
after I upped the leverage to a 1/2" drive ratchet.
...
If you assume someone is more capable than they are, and they don't think to ask for help, they may hurt them selves or their car. Darwinism, .
...
most fustrating brake job I've done in recent times. Thanks to everyone for your help.

I always keep old brake pads around, they make good sanding blocks for crosshatching rotors, flywheels, engine blocks etc.

Interesting note about the 1/2" ratchet, had the same prob with my son's car and couldn't believe that the bolt and the threads actually held up with that much torque. In round numbers I'd calculated that 25-30 ft-lbs is all I can torque with the average 3/8" ratchet, the 1/2" drive takes it to 45 which is well beyond what that bolt was ever designed to take much less the cast iron alloy rotor. Such a neet feeling when you hear the tell-tale pop when the molecular bond lets go.
.........

You mean Darwin as in the gene pool has been terminated.
..................

I've had my share of brake jobs from Hell, welcome to the club. I remember the old Datsun Fairlady and MG Sprites where it was the old 5# sledge and cutting chisel. Your ears would ring for a week, arm muscles ache and the hand holding the chisel would be sore from the shock. Why me lord, why me...

Cheers,
GTM