Stalls and runs to rich

[Karnich]

Hi

recently bought a 2g DSM 4g63-t..

1. problem:
it had a innovate wideband gauge installed. it runs betwen 7,3-10,3 .. 7,3-8,5 at idle and 10,3 when accelerating. i was told that it sound say 14,7 or so. what could the problem be here?
might wanna say that the previous owner probably ran with 98 gas with lead. and ive also heard that thats not good for the cat.. would this have ruined my cat or ?


2. problem:
also. SOMETIMES, its not directly a problem since it dosnt do it very often, but after running like 50-200m the car just goes out.. i barely hear it when it does. its after pressing the clutch down while breaking it does it. what could this be?

at idle i also feel the car jumps alittle, maybe to low idle? its around 800.. jumping alittle betwen 750-850 rpm

it dosnt really have any big mods.. fmic, aftermarket bov, boost gauge, innovate wideband. thats about it i believe.. and i just replaced my ignition cables, the problems was there before that tho. bov is recirculated

hope you can help


- Karnich

 

[r1991_4g63t]

is the BOV recirculated? if not this sounds like your problem

 

[Karnich]

yes the bov is recirculated

 

[propeine]

1. Have you confirmed that the front O2 sensor is in working condition? That could cause your idle to fluctuate and the car would likely run rich as the ECU is in failsafe mode. This may or may not cause a CEL. If you are running the wideband's 2nd output in "simulate narrowband" then you can most likely ignore this. If you're not running it this way consider doing it to see if that fixes the problem.

2. Sometimes the BOV can vent enough air back into the intake tract to cause reversion through the MAF. After a hard run then the clutch in the revs are falling and the MAF is confused due to air going the "wrong way" through it or stalling incoming air. I have seen it happen on other cars with a FMIC.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

800 rpm is about right for idle so that's not an issue. If it's going up and down it could probably be the iac motor needing a good cleaning. Do you know how old the wideband sensor is? Have you looked at it to see if it's black or not? Checked the condition of your plugs? How old are they? Been a lil while since we've spoken so can't remember. If your plugs are fouled, that could be causing a stalling issue. Do you know for sure if you even have a cat? If so, yeah, lead wouldn't be the greatest for it. But I've never really had to deal with that issue so couldn't tell ya how long it'd take to ruin it.

 

[Karnich]

v8s_are_slow:
plugs and wires are only a few weeks old.. like 2 weeks to be correct.

about the cat. hmm when you ask like that im not 100% sure.. doesnt every 96 2g dsm turbo have a cat as standard?

i believe the wideband is only 1 year old at its most.
what is the IAC motor mate? :s

and good to hear from you again!



Propeine:
1. propeine how do i check if the front o2 sensor is in working condition?
if the ECU would go into failsafe mode, wouldnt the engine light be on? cause its not.

2. if thats what happening, the air going the wrong way, how do i fix that?

and whats a CEL? :s

 

[v8s_are_slow]

What kind of plugs? What gap? Pull them and inspect them. Just because they're new doesn't mean they can't be fouled.

When did the problem begin?

IAC motor is on the lower rear side of the throttle body that helps keep to control a nice smooth idle. But I wouldn't worry about checking that just yet.

You don't have anything for tuning do ya? Maft? Anything?

CEL is check engine light.

Gotta get to work, I'll check back later.

 

[Karnich]

NKG BPR6EKN. its twin spark plugs so it cant really be gapped. my workshop manual from haynes recommand them or equivalent but my old plugs acturlly didnt look to bad.

no mods, only fmic, boost gauge, innovate wideband, cone airfilter and greddy RS copy bov.. boost has been increased to 1,25 bar earliere but changed back. dont know if that could have an impact on the rich problem?

also. the previous owner mentioned a turbosmart bleed-valve. dont really know what that is tho?

(just replaced an IAC motor today on another car acturlly so i know what it is now )


if i wanna inspect the front o2 sensor? what do i do? just pull it our or messure the voltage on it or?


problem was there from the start, with the rich problem. the owner said thats where it should be, 10,3 at speed and 7,3 at idle.. didnt know better back then.

 

[tunethis]

NKG BPR6EKN. its twin spark plugs so it cant really be gapped. my workshop manual from haynes recommand them or equivalent but my old plugs acturlly didnt look to bad.

no mods, only fmic, boost gauge, innovate wideband, cone airfilter and greddy RS copy bov.. boost has been increased to 1,25 bar earliere but changed back. dont know if that could have an impact on the rich problem?

also. the previous owner mentioned a turbosmart bleed-valve. dont really know what that is tho?

(just replaced an IAC motor today on another car acturlly so i know what it is now )


if i wanna inspect the front o2 sensor? what do i do? just pull it our or messure the voltage on it or?


problem was there from the start, with the rich problem. the owner said thats where it should be, 10,3 at speed and 7,3 at idle.. didnt know better back then.

The NGK Bpr6es plugs are a very good, widely used replacement plug for DSM's running stock to 16psi or so. Gapped to .028. I don't know about those plugs you have, especially since they can't be gapped.

 

[Karnich]

would look something like this

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

the middle being the electron thing

 

[r1991_4g63t]

bad plugs, BAD! get some regular NGK plugs and you should be ok

 

[No_Skillz]

Make sure they are NGK BPR6ES gapped to 0.028 with a switchblade type gapper. The disc type gappers are shit.

And do a BLT.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Glad I asked what kinda plugs you have. Lol. Yeah man, scrap them. Get some ES's. They have one single tip, and yes, it's adjustable, and probably much cheaper than what you just paid for. Try that out and then let us know how it runs. Knock that out and then if the problem continues, then let us know.

 

[Karnich]

i dont think the plugs are the reason for it to run rich, since after i changed, its been exactly the same, 7,3-10,3 on the wideband gauge. and the previous onces was single tipped and didnt look that bad acturlly.

and ya they where expensive >,< compared from danish kr. to US $ 1 plug costed about 40$ each!.

just weird why the plugs shoulnt be good enough since the workshop manual mentions them :s

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i dont think the plugs are the reason for it to run rich, since after i changed, its been exactly the same, 7,3-10,3 on the wideband gauge. and the previous onces was single tipped and didnt look that bad acturlly.

and ya they where expensive >,< compared from danish kr. to US $ 1 plug costed about 40$ each!.

just weird why the plugs shoulnt be good enough since the workshop manual mentions them :s

Well, not to say you might not have more problems and because you don't have a datalogger of any sort, it can be a guessing game unless you have another car around to swap parts with. And of course we can't be there physically to look at the car so we can only go off what you tell us. Kinda like telling someone how to perform surgery over the phone. Lol.

As for the plugs, it might not lean it out but it may help with the performance. Are you sure the manual says NKG BPR6EKN and not NKG BPR6ES? Dual prong plugs on a turbo car suck. Especially one you can't gap. If the gap is too wide or you don't have a large enough spark, you won't ignite all the fuel. Kinda like trying to make a campfire in a hurricane with a match versus a blowtorch.

Not sure what the "factory" tune is with the afr's but I wouldn't think it needs to be that rich. You could have a bad maf, bad fuel pressure regulator, boost leak, bad O2 sensor, bad wideband sensor possibly, not enough spark, etc. And not being able to lean out the fuel any doesn't help. I'd start with the obvious though (the plugs) and then go from there.

 

[propeine]

Propeine:
1. propeine how do i check if the front o2 sensor is in working condition?
if the ECU would go into failsafe mode, wouldnt the engine light be on? cause its not.

2. if thats what happening, the air going the wrong way, how do i fix that?

and whats a CEL? :s

1. The engine light only comes on for bad O2 after something like 30 min at operating temp, above 35mph etc. A long highway cruise basically. I'm not sure how you would check if its working without a logger but you could always check the voltage on it at idle with a voltmeter maybe.

2. I honestly don't know. I run a MAFT in blowthrough so I vent to atmosphere and have never had that problem. Just gave that option from reading other peoples problems

CEL = check engine light