2g GST Auto... Buzzing in gear

[JLangevin]

I had some kind of tranny failure the other day, just not sure what it could be. Im going to take it to a trusted transmission tech on monday, but wanted to run my problem by you guys first...

The other day, my car was getting a bit of resistance when stopping, so I pulled over to investigate... when I pulled over, the tranny was making a very loud buzzing noise in R, N, D, 2, 1 but not in Park... I checked the fluid level with the engine idling and full temp, the fluid didnt even register on the dip. When I went back in the car and put it into 1st to pull into a parking lot, the car would not go into any gear... I turned off the car and called a buddy. After sitting for about 5 min, I started it again and it went into gear fine... and there was no buzzing. After a mile or so, it acted like it was taking itself out of gear. I pulled into an Autozone and had them tell me the reccomended ATF... they told me it was ATF +3 but reccomended Diamond Fluids which they didnt have. I got 5 quarts and after all 5, the dipstick showed full.

The tranny continued to do its problem. When cold, the car goes into gear and drives fine, but after a few min, it starts to have a loud electrical buzzing noise and will gradually start to not go into gear.

The car has been sitting since monday. I just started it again and it buzzed from the begining but went into gear fine. I just let the car idle in Park for a few min to cycle the engine since its been sitting. The tranny is full and there isnt a single drip on the driveway. I dont understand where the fluid went. It never smoked, and has only been driven around town, no racing... Can anyone tell me what may be going on? I want to be somewhat informed before taking it to the transmission shop.

Car: 1995 GST
Trans: FWD Auto
Miles: 146,000

Thanks in advance everyone! Im needing your input.

 

[JLangevin]

Anyone?? Id like to get a little education before taking it to the shop monday.

 

[streetlegends]

When I put my car into drive it makes that buzz sound. The real question is have you changed the fluid and filter lately?? The other question is have you ever took the car back to the factory to see if anyone had the recall about the tranny(leak fluid travel causing the tranny to fail). The years where from 1995-1997 for the tranny problem. The first thang is call the dealer and give them the vin and see if the problem was repaired and so they are actually suppose to fix everything it fells after as long as you maintained it like changing the fluid and filter.

 

[JLangevin]

Due to the miles (146,000) the recall is expired. I appreciate the help.

 

[GTM]

If you have no leaks then the only place it can go is through the vacuum regulator/modulator valve and getting burned throught the engine. You can sometimes pull the spark plugs and find 1 or 2 have been burning oil. These will be closest to the vacuum fitting that is coming from the tranny. The diaphram has ruptured in the valve and now passes oil.

However, by running it low on oil the clutch packs may be ruined or at least badly worn. Depending on design the front pump can route oil to the main drive pack first but then try to fill the other packs and it starts to slip because the clutch pack seals are leaking faster than it can deliver oil.

Don't shoot the messenger but I'm afraid you are in for a major tranny job from all the gear and bearing noises. Now is the time to start looking for a possible replacement for you could be looking at $1500+ in rebuild costs.

Did they go away when you added oil? Replacing the bad valve might buy you some time but I'm not there to determine how extensive is the damage.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[JLangevin]

Im well prepared for the costs that are involved. Ive been looking for a replacement tranny since I do not want to rebuild this one. Ive also been looking into teh 5 speed swap.

The tranny shop I trust told me the same thing you just did the same day it happened. Sounds like you are both on the right track.

I have been searching DSM and Ebay for a transmission locally but no luck. I suppose I will just let it sit until I find something to replace it with. There is no point removing the transmission just to simply replace the packs.

Fortunately the shop only charges $295 to replace the tranny if I bring them one.. thats the route I will go.. GTM, do you have a link or refference to where I can get a decent Take-Out unit, or trustworthy place to get a replacement?

 

[GTM]

...

Sounds like you are both on the right track.
...
Fortunately the shop only charges $295 to replace the tranny if I bring them one.. thats the route I will go.. GTM, do you have a link or refference to where I can get a decent Take-Out unit, or trustworthy place to get a replacement?

Let the shop have a look, I'm only drawing on my experiences from other cars and if you have no oil leaks it doesn't evaporate.
....................

You have a couple of "Pick Your Parts" type yards near you, one is north of the #60 on Jarupa (sp?) and the other is 1/2 between I-10 and #60 the first off ramp west of I-15 interchange. W???????? Ave. The latter has always had several DSMs, I'm guessing $75-$100 BUT every couple of months they have a 1/2 off sale so bring lots of tools, a wish list, and a cart with wheels. They are open 7 days a week, $2 admission each, they will give a 30 day warranty or an extended warranty for extra money.

Might want to bag the torque converter and possibly the flex plate. The $2 is cheaper than a movie and a lot more fun. Might find ECU, Crank, Cam, coil packs, etc. which are commonly failing.

As for the tranny check the dipstick, smell the oil for being burned. Look for non factory glue on case covers. Stay away from motive components if the car has been driven hard and mickey mouse repairs. Look in cooling system for rust ( shows maintenance), speedo/odometer, general overall appearance to help in selecting parts.

If you find something pull some trunk carpet out to lay on while under the car, a hat, shop towels, a pillow for your head Stand on a spare tire so you dont break your back. They have cherry pickers if it has to come from the top. There are always plenty of screw jacks in car trunks if you have to jack the engine or tranny up while removing mounts.

Let us know what you find.
Cheers,
GTM

 

[Doug99RS]

When I put my car into drive it makes that buzz sound. The real question is have you changed the fluid and filter lately?? The other question is have you ever took the car back to the factory to see if anyone had the recall about the tranny(leak fluid travel causing the tranny to fail). The years where from 1995-1997 for the tranny problem. The first thang is call the dealer and give them the vin and see if the problem was repaired and so they are actually suppose to fix everything it fells after as long as you maintained it like changing the fluid and filter.

The recall for fluid leakage was on the transfer case not the transmission itself. The transfer case recall also covered all of the AWD's and not just 1g or 2g. Also, if the fluid level is not een registering on the dipstick then FIRST you must fill the transmission.

The original concern: Buzzing noise and no acceleration from a stop sounds like a pump starving for fluid. This happens when there's no fluid like you've got or by seals leaking in the pump so that it physically moves but can't flow any fluid and ingests air.

I HOPE you didn't put in ATF +3 in to your mitsu transmission because ATF +3 is only for the 2gnt auto trans and not the Mitsu autos. You need Diamond SPF fluid (I think that's what they call it). Regardless, NOT ATF+3. Go back and smack the counter guy at Advance.

If you're going to swap out the units I highly recomend replacing the torque convertor and the oil cooler (Integrated with the radiator). The torque convertor has enough components in it that can deteriorate and clog up the small passages in the trans to justify NOT wanting to reuse it especially if it's got 100K+ miles . Also, there's been time and time again where the transmission took a dump because of starving for fluid or not getting cooled properly both of which were the fault of the trans oil cooler. Then after the trans was replaced it took yet another dump because the cooler wasn't replaced. At the bare minimum use an external oil cooler in place of the factory one if you don't want to replace the radiator. These are cheap and easy to install from any parts stores.
Doug

 

[steve]

I HOPE you didn't put in ATF +3 in to your mitsu transmission because ATF +3 is only for the 2gnt auto trans and not the Mitsu autos. You need Diamond SPF fluid (I think that's what they call it). Regardless, NOT ATF+3.

Doug, you might want to double check this. I'm pretty sure that ATF+3 and the Mitsubishi fluids are the same stuff. The FSM says Diamond ATF SP, Mitsubishi Plus ATF and the Mopar ATF Plus. ATF+3 superceeds the earlier versions.

Steve

 

[JLangevin]

Thanks guys. GTM... you are reffering to the Mission Blvd and Pyrite Pick-a-Part. Been there hundreds of times for parts for my Z28.

As for the oil cooler, the transmission is new and was replaced about 6 months before the transmission took its dump, so the cooler should be fine. When I do my front mount, I may put a cooler where the factory smic is.

I appreciate all the help. I wouldnt have evern considered the PAP's since I dont know enough to know if a tranny is good. But perhaps I will browse and see what I find...


AS for the model... 7 bolts require a 7 bolt tranny, right? And is there a difference between the 95 NT and GST models?

 

[Doug99RS]

Doug, you might want to double check this. I'm pretty sure that ATF+3 and the Mitsubishi fluids are the same stuff. The FSM says Diamond ATF SP, Mitsubishi Plus ATF and the Mopar ATF Plus. ATF+3 superceeds the earlier versions.

Steve

Well, shit.
99FSM
00-50 through 00-51 "turbo Transmission Diamond ATF SPII, Diamond ATF SPII M or equivalent."

00-51 through 00-52 "non-turbo Transmission Diamond SP II or equivalent"
I guess much like this guys transmission... I'm slipping.
Thanks Steve.
Doug

 

[steve]

Thanks Steve.
Doug

Anytime.

Steve

 

[GTM]

Thanks guys. GTM... you are reffering to the Mission Blvd and Pyrite Pick-a-Part. Been there hundreds of times for parts for my Z28.

As for the oil cooler, the transmission is new and was replaced about 6 months before the transmission took its dump, so the cooler should be fine. When I do my front mount, I may put a cooler where the factory smic is.

I appreciate all the help. I wouldnt have evern considered the PAP's since I dont know enough to know if a tranny is good. But perhaps I will browse and see what I find...


AS for the model... 7 bolts require a 7 bolt tranny, right? And is there a difference between the 95 NT and GST models?

Yes on the Pyrite though not as big as the other, not familiar with Mission, I had the wrong street, should have been Milliken Ave. just north of the railroad tracks.

Bummer that it was only 6 months old, wonder if it was not properly filled since you indicated there were no oil leaks? Did it have any sort of warranty from that job? I would have them flush the oil cooler depending on what they find in the bottom or suspended in the oil.

Pulling the tranny oil pan for inspection at the junk yard will let you see some history, it's normal for some very fine deposits but it shouldn't be thick with particles of any kind when you run you fingers through it. Have the installing shop take a look if you select something, they of course can't guarantee it but they may spot something. I'm not familiar with DSM auto tranny design but on some you can view the clutch pack stack and get some idea of the wear.

I really can't answer the 7 bolt question, perhaps some of the others can.

Too bad my bike is not running or I would meet you out there, I think it's about 45 miles from my place.

Let us know what they find and advise.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[JLangevin]

Well, Im thinking of having the shop look at it tomorrow. I get free tows, and the shop will put it on a lift and pull the pan and inspect it for free as well.

If the shop tells me bad news, I will probably let it sit for a little bit. I appreciate the offer to help me look though the yards. Its always fun to see what you can find. Perhaps if you get your bike up in the near future, we could still meet up at the Milliken yard. They have some good stuff. I found some rare scores there for my Camaro. I havent been in a bit, but I never really recall seeing any 2g DSMs, but lots of 1g NT's. I could also try some dismantlers near by, but I would definitly need to find out if there are crucial differences between the NT and Turbo FWD Autos. Its not like they are putting out a world of differences with the power output.

Does anyone know where I can find out this info? Casting numbers perhaps? Thanks!

 

[JLangevin]

but I would definitly need to find out if there are crucial differences between the NT and Turbo FWD Autos.

Can anyone tell me this information?