Put my car on a lift- found disturbing news

[leakyfaucet]

I put my car on a lift to see what was causing my steering wheel to pull randomly when I go over bumps. I found 3 problems:

1. Steering rack is leaking. It's a slow leak, so I'm not worried about that, but could this indicate that the rack is worn, and loose? Could this cause the steering to jump when going over bumps? The tie-rod ends were perfect.

2. Outer driver's side axle boot was freshly torn. The boot that is right where to axle goes into the hub. Does anyone know where to buy just the boot? The axle is okay, I'm just going to replace the boot.

3. Clutch slave cylinder leaking. Anyone know the cheapest place to get a clutch slave cylinder? Is it a bi*** to put in?

I will be doing all of the work myself, not taking it to a shop. I've never done any of this before so any tips or advice would be appreciated!

 

[luv2rallye]

The tie-rod ends were perfect.

Both inner and outer?

 

[megadeth0]

I put my car on a lift to see what was causing my steering wheel to pull randomly when I go over bumps. I found 3 problems:

1. Steering rack is leaking. It's a slow leak, so I'm not worried about that, but could this indicate that the rack is worn, and loose? Could this cause the steering to jump when going over bumps? The tie-rod ends were perfect.

2. Outer driver's side axle boot was freshly torn. The boot that is right where to axle goes into the hub. Does anyone know where to buy just the boot? The axle is okay, I'm just going to replace the boot.

3. Clutch slave cylinder leaking. Anyone know the cheapest place to get a clutch slave cylinder? Is it a bi*** to put in?

I will be doing all of the work myself, not taking it to a shop. I've never done any of this before so any tips or advice would be appreciated!

1. If it's a very slow leak use a bottle of Lucas Power Steering Stop Leak. It is Guarranteed or your money back. But I wouldn't think a small leak is the problem with your jumping. Another thing to check is the ball joints. These can cause the steering to bounce around.

2. I would buy the boot from Mitsu themselves. The cups on our cars are shaped a little different than most and you cannot get some boots to seal. As for the install though, with the Mitsu boot it is fairly easy.

3. Napa is fairly cheap for the slave. I can't remember exactly though. Installation is not too bad. Just make sure and get it bled well.

Good Luck Man!!

 

[leakyfaucet]

Thanks for the responses so far guys!

Both inner and outer?

I'm talking about the two tie rods on the ends of the rack. One on the driver's side, and one on the passenger's side. Where are the other ones?

 

[4G63Boosted]

The other two tie rod ends are located inside of the bellows boots, where the tie rod adjustors go into the rack. Just squeeze on the boot until you feel a larger, somewhat round object, these will be the innter tie rod ends.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I think you guys are confusing the boots on the rack and pinion and the boot on the axle. Any way I got some advice for ya.

What you are experiencing is called "bump steer" and is normally caused by mis-alignment. Its worse with FWD when "torque steer" plays into it. I suggest you have the alignment checked. However, an alignment may not resolve the issue. Other things such as; bent tie-rods, bad tie-rods ends, bad wheel bearings, etc. may also be a contributing factor. An alignment shop should look for these things when checking alignment, but thats not always the case. You can check these things on your own if you wish.

To check the wheel bearings, raise the car and put them on jack stands, grab the wheel at the top & the bottom and shake it, if it wobbles the wearing bearings are bad.

If the wheel bearings are good, check the tie-rod ends. You can do this by shaking the wheel with your hands on the left & right side of the tire. Also while doing this peek in and see if the tie-rod end is shaking where the hub attaches to the rotating assemebly. It should NOT move.

The tie rod is easy, just look to see if there any obvious bends in them.

As for your other questions:
1)As for the rack and pinion I have no experience removing, installing or troubleshooting them, so I won't comment. My old laser had a massive leak from the rack and pinion and it did not cause bump steer at all.

2)You can buy just the boot kit (CV boot, axle grease, and locking rings) at DSMotorsports, one of our sponsors, here (half way down the page). You can call/email them to get just one from them instead of getting all four for the front.
Make sure when you replace it that you totally remove the CV joint from the cup and clean it REALLY good. Then grease both the joint and the cup fully, assemble it and install the boot.

3) You can buy the slave cylinder here as well (top of the page). Another thing to note is that 90% of the time when the slave cylinder needs to be replaced the master cylinder needs to be replaced, as well. I suggest you check it. To check it you just look under the dash near the pedals. The clutch master cylinder adjustment rod is located directly above the gas pedal (NOT THE BRAKE PEDAL). If there is fluid on it then it needs to be replaced as well.

If you need anymore help feel free to PM or post your question on this thread.

 

[Jimmy Jr.]

Is your car lowered?

 

[leakyfaucet]

Thanks for the responses so far guys. The steering also has a bit of slop in it, I'm pretty sure its not from a bad alignment, but again I could be wrong. I'll check for slop when I get to a friend's house, he has a lift.

No, it's not lowered.

 

[leakyfaucet]

Well laser, you were right, my master cylinder is leaking too. I just got done replacing the slave, that was pretty easy. How hard is replacing the master cylinder compared to the slave? Any tips/advice? Don't know where to start on this one.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

The master is a PITA. and I mean it. But I got it down to a sceince.

First you will need a friend to help
Secondly here is a walk through.,
Removal
-Drop the lower dash under the steering column. (4 screws)
-Left the hood release lever and there will be 2 brass screws there, remove them
-Take the wire out of the hood release lever
-Remove the lower dash trim.
-REMOVE THE DRIVER SEAT (trust me this will help ALOT) 2, 14mm bolts, and 2, 14mm nuts, + one 12mm bolt that holds the belt to the seat.

Some say these next several steps are not necessary, I felt it cut a few hours out of work
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Take the steering cover wheel/horn off (1 screw at the bottom)
-Remove all the Steering wheel trim (screws on the bottom, can't remember how many)
-Remove the steering wheel nut (17-19 mm, can't remember)
-Either use a puller to get the wheel off, or if you are buff like me use pure muscle.
-Disconnect ALL the harnesses along the top of steering column.
-Drop the Steering column ( 8 bolts, all 12mm, four up top, four near the bottom)
IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE REMOVED, just able to move around, so you can work around it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Remove any Heating/Cooling ducts your feel is in your way.

Now you have full access to the master clutch assembly inside the car. There is a U-shaped clip that has a bolt (it doesn't have threads) going through it and the clutch pedal assmebly. It is held in by a cotter pin remove the cotter pin and "finagle" the bolt out, it pushes right out, there is no need to use a ratchet. Catch the washer that falls out.

Under the hood.
-This part is EASY, as long as you follow my directions!!!!
-Take the clutch line out the master cyclinder. It is a 10mm eyebolt. User a flare wrench. USE A FLARE WRENCH, USE A FLARE WRENCH. If you use a regular wrench you will destroy the eyebolt and have to replace the upper hardline for the clutch.
-There are two 12mm nuts that hold the master cylinder to the wall. The master cyclinder is the Skinner one. remove the 2 12mm nuts. And it will come right out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Installation
I will refer the master cyclinder as CMC (for Clutch Master Cylinder)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-First prime the CMC, put new DOT3 Break Fluid in it and pump it.
-Second you want to adjust the U-Clip till the bolt is about halfway on the threads and tighten the nut against it.
-Have your friend hold the new CMC in the hood. Don't bolt it down yet. He will need to move it around and you will need to move the pedal around until you can get the bolt through the clutch pedal assembly.
-Once you get the bolt through, put the bolt washer on the bolt and insert a new cotter pin and bind it.

Once this is down the rest is a cake-walk. The bolt, washer, pin installation is the hardest part IMO.

-Put the 2, 12mm nuts back in (in the engine back)
-Finger tighten the eyebolt in, and then use a 10mm flare-nut wrench to tight in the rest of the way down.

-Putting the Steering wheel column back up is another 2 man job, you will have to have your friend hold it up while you put the 8, 12mm bolts back in.
-Connect the harness connectors.
-Reinstall the trim on the Steering Column
-Reinstall the hood release lever
-Reinstall the lower dash trim.
-Reinstall Seats

BLEED, BLEED, BLEED the clutch pedal.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Take it for a test drive, you may need to adjust the U-Clip, but other then that, your done.

 

[leakyfaucet]

Thanks for the walkthrough. I'm going to attempt it in about a half hour. Can't you mix DOT3 and DOT4? I already have an unopened container of DOT4, but the slave cylinder and the manual said to use DOT3. Can I put in DOT4 instead?

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I'm not sure, I would assume so. PM a Wiseman and ask them. A small fact about brake fluid (or hydralic clutch line fluid in this case), you can not leave it out with the cap open for long periods of time.

Brake fluid has the tendancy to absorb water from the air, which is very bad.

 

[megadeth0]

Yes, you can mix Dot 3 with 4. If you are replacing the master then I would replace all your fluid with Dot 4.

 

[leakyfaucet]

Okay, update. I got the slave and master done without too much of a problem. Thanks for all the help. I didn't remove anything under the dash to get the master out, just pushed the seat back, but then again, I'm pretty thin, and used to getting into tight places.

However, I can't bleed the system perfectly so the clutch still engages a little too close to the floor. I tried using a speed bleeder with no line attached, so I could just open it, pump, then close it, but the speed bleeder leaks around the threads, and so does the normal valve. As soon as I open the valve enough to let fluid out, it will leak through the threads. Is there anything I can do for this?

Thanks!

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Buy an extended slave cylinder rod, this will bring the engagement point up a bit.


As for leaking around the threads, as long as it does not leak when all the way closed, it will hold.

 

[leakyfaucet]

I think the clutch engages too close to the floor because there is air in the lines. I know the valve will hold when closed, but I'm saying that I can't bleed it properly because of the leaking around the threads. If fluid can come out around the threads, then air can get in when I pull the pedal back up. I kept bleeding it and air wouldn't stop coming out, because of the leaking around the threads.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Hmmm, that doesn't make much sense. Return the slave cylinder and get a new one. What clutch are you running. Does the pedal feel firm or soft/squishy?

 

[justin case]

if the cv boot is torn it's a good idea to change the entire shaft because you dont know how long its been torn adn how much debris has gotten into it,even if you clean it as best you can you still could be missing some and may have to replace it in the future anyhow, just my 2 cents

 

[leakyfaucet]

Hmmm, that doesn't make much sense. Return the slave cylinder and get a new one. What clutch are you running. Does the pedal feel firm or soft/squishy?

I'm running a ACT2100. It feels a little light than normal for the first 1/2 of the pedal travel, then normal pressure the rest of the way- leading me to believe there's still air in the lines.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Try fully exchanging the clutch fluid. With a new Master and a new slave it should feel pretty firm. Your old fluid might be bad and might account for the lack in pedal pressure.

 

[leakyfaucet]

It's completely drained, its all new fluid in there. But I'm positive its got air in it =\

 

[Morphius]

Buy an extended slave cylinder rod, this will bring the engagement point up a bit.

If the clutch is misadjusted, yes then the extended slave rod helps. However, take note that it can lead to a slipping clutch, damaged disk, damaged pressure plate, TOB failure and lots more headaches. To those of you who say, " it worked for me" Yep, because your clutch pedal was misadjusted. I then ask, "Did your TOB fail since? Did you clutch slip after several thousand miles, having taken it apart only to find the disk still looked OK? Likely yes. If not, then count yourself lucky.

Contrary to popular belief, the extended slave rod does nothing but bias the piston inside the slave cylinder further into the slave. Don't waste your money.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

If the clutch is misadjusted, yes then the extended slave rod helps. However, take note that it can lead to a slipping clutch, damaged disk, damaged pressure plate, TOB failure and lots more headaches. To those of you who say, " it worked for me" Yep, because your clutch pedal was misadjusted. I then ask, "Did your TOB fail since? Did you clutch slip after several thousand miles, having taken it apart only to find the disk still looked OK? Likely yes. If not, then count yourself lucky.

Contrary to popular belief, the extended slave rod does nothing but bias the piston inside the slave cylinder further into the slave. Don't waste your money.

Whoa, calm down Tonto. Your statement is only partly true. If the clutch pedal is misadjusted then that needs to be done first, however. If you read my installations guide for the CMC, I told him to screw the U-clip until it was flush with the adjustment bolt and to lock it in place with the nut. If he has done that, it would have fully adjusted the engament point on the pedal to its highest point. Now if the clutch is still grabbing right off the floor, then the most likely causes are pivot ball/clutch fork or a failed bushings on the clutch pedal assembly. Putting in a extended rod will help fix the problem with pedal. I have all of the following to fix my clutch woes.

New CMC (adjusted top and bottom adjustment bolts, maxed out)
New CSC
SS clutch line
Extended Slave rod
New fluid.

Each item helped the clutch problem but didn't fully fix it. I narrowed down the problem to the Pedal. To temporarily fix the problem I put a small nut inside the piston of the slave cylinder to move the pedal engagement point up, until I can find the time and money to I replace the pedal assembly. I have the extended rod for over year now with no secondary effects, also this car is my daily beater, 11 miles, to and from work. etc. etc.

 

[Morphius]

My appologies if I came off as 'attacking' in my previous post, I mearly wanted to get my point across.

I told him to screw the U-clip until it was flush with the adjustment bolt and to lock it in place with the nut. If he has done that, it would have fully adjusted the engament point on the pedal to its highest point.

I can't speak to the tolerance of the pedal assembly, dash panel and master cylinder (MC), but I personally have 4 DSM's here that if you adjust them to that point, the MC is in cut-off. I venture to say the system (if new-no pedal assy slop) wasn't designed to go out that far (even though it can, doesn't mean it can be 'used' at that point)

Now if the clutch is still grabbing right off the floor, then the most likely causes are pivot ball/clutch fork or a failed bushings on the clutch pedal assembly.

Yes, I'd totally agree. or the lever on the end of the pedal assy cross-shaft for MC actuation.

Putting in a extended rod will help fix the problem with pedal.

No, it doesn't with two exceptions that can cause other issues (see response below).

To temporarily fix the problem I put a small nut inside the piston of the slave cylinder to move the pedal engagement point up, until I can find the time and money to I replace the pedal assembly. I have the extended rod for over year now with no secondary effects, also this car is my daily beater, 11 miles, to and from work. etc. etc.

The hydraulic clutch system is self adjusting. People need to realize this. As your clutch wears, the release fork moves more towards the engine. The slave cylinder (SC) needs to compensate. So, as a result the piston in the SC gradually, over time, moves more and more into the body of the SC.

Now, also recall why the slave is called the slave. It's reacting to actions at the MC. The MC is pushing fluid to it. It can ONLY move the amount induced by the amount of fluid sent it's direction. Now, the way the MC moves that fluid is by a piston and a compensation port. The port seals itself in the first 3-8mm of travel of the clutch pedal. Then, the fluid you are displacing at the MC can't be pushed into the reservior, it's sent to the slave.

There is no adjustment on the slave. The only way to increase the travel of the SC is by changing hydraulic ratios (MC/SC diameters) or changing the actutation point of the MC on the pedal itself (ie where it attaches).

There are only two reasons why the extended slave can work. One, misadjustment of the MC. If you adjust the pedal too far up (it deadstops), then you start to push on the MC rod and it puts the MC into cutoff (remember it only takes 1-2mm of pedal travel to induce this which is fraction of that at the MC(say .5 - 1mm) SO, if you've deadstopped the pedal and continued to adjust the MC rod out further, you will put it into cut-off. Then, you can't push the SC rod into the body. It's dead headed. Then, by adding any extra length of SC rod, you offset the release fork. Could be just enough or it may be riding constantly on the PP. The result is a system that can pump up, the hydraulic system can't self adjust, and the potential to damage the PP and TOB.

The second, would be making the extended slave rod too long. Long enough that when it is installed, it's constantly putting pressure on the release fork. (adding the nut can do this) I'd have to go measure the slave, but for discussions sake, say the bore is 40mm long. The piston (at nominal) is located in the middle of the SC body. Stroking the pedal (when adjusted correctly to provide maximum stroke) moves the slave piston 15mm. Release, and it returns to the middle. Over the life of the clutch, the disk wears, resulting in the release fork riding closer and closer to the SC. From the nominal point (center), the slave bore, because it's 40mm long, has 20mm of travel deeper that the piston can ride. This is more than likley within the bounds of a totally worn clutch.

Continuing the previous paragraph, Now remembering that the SC piston has +/- 20mm it can move. If you install an extended slave rod in that is say, 22mm longer, that means the piston will be pushed into the SC body 20mm (now bottomed out) and the slave rod now has to push the release fork 2mm in the opposite direction. (Yes, I can see how for some of you it works and you seem to have no symptons, yet) This is sketchy at best. It is guess work on whether you have the right length to where the release fork it not riding constantly on the pressure plate (PP), because now you've taken out all the self-adjustment of the hydraulic system. The downside of this approach is, as your clutch disk wears, the slave rod can't move deeper in the SC body and adjust. The result is a slipping clutch over time. It can also mean excessive wear on the PP fingers, TOB damage or early failure.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I'm having a problems comprehending some of what you are saying however, however your post makes some sense as to why I may have been expeirencing other related problems (for that I left a rep). It will help if I had a visual, but obviously thats not possible.

Explain to me cut-off and how it happens.

**edit** I will just quote and pick what parts confuses me or I don't fully agree with.