Thermostat Q

[92awd6bolt]

So basically my t-stat took a shit and i'm replacing it. My question is what would be the disadvantages of running a lower temp stat?I've found a 160,180,190, what do you guys and gals recommend?thanks

 

[Pro3racer]

i just had to get a new one tonite, i decided on the 190. I don't really use heat, i would rather have my engine be warm, and me be cold, then vise versa. Its better to run your engine alittle warm too. Not too warm though, don't get me wrong.

 

[Sotarts]

190 for colder climates, 180 for warmer climates and FMIC's and higher power cars. I replaced mine with a 180-degree thermostat on a stock turbo Laser. Worked perfectly fine with no ill effects.

 

[GTM]

...
i would rather have my engine be warm, and me be cold, then vise versa. Its better to run your engine alittle warm too. Not too warm though, don't get me wrong.

I don't know where you got your info but other than for emmision reasons this just isn't so.

What's the point of having an IC if you are just going to raise it up with a hot thermostat? Now all 3 of you have issues of cold winter climate which can influence your choice and some mfgs will specify winter and summer T'stats. My personal choice is to run 10 degrees cooler than those specified for I can always block of the radiator with newspaper or cardboard if the car is taking too long to get up to a reasonable temp. But if you are going to run a winter T'stat then you should change it before summer.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Pro3racer]

well, i am non-turbo, so i don't need to worry about a intercooler. I'm putting a 190 in, because thats what my manual said to use.

 

[Sotarts]

well, i am non-turbo, so i don't need to worry about a intercooler. I'm putting a 190 in, because thats what my manual said to use.

I don't know if you noticed, but the person who posted a question drives a turbo car. Therefore, he needs an answer that's related to turbocharged performance. Simple, no?

 

[92redman]

Winter and summer t-stats haven't been used since the 50's when the winter coolant used to be alcohol based which boiled at about 160deg. The only thing you gain from a lower temp t-stat is nothing. It takes longer to warm up the engine, and it will not keep the engine coolant cooler anyway, that is controlled by the fan.

The only way to reduce chance of overheating is with a larger radiator, more efficient fan or both.

Use what the service manual says to use.

 

[Sotarts]

Winter and summer t-stats haven't been used since the 50's when the winter coolant used to be alcohol based which boiled at about 160deg. The only thing you gain from a lower temp t-stat is nothing. It takes longer to warm up the engine, and it will not keep the engine coolant cooler anyway, that is controlled by the fan.

The only way to reduce chance of overheating is with a larger radiator, more efficient fan or both.

Use what the service manual says to use.

Speed Mods
2.5" O2 housing w/ dump, 3" RnR turboback, no cat.

Obviously you might not need the lower-temp t-stat.

How does it take longer to warm up the engine?

Service manual is for stock factory cars. When you start modifying these cars, engines become hotter sooner and run hotter.

 

[GTM]

I don't know if you noticed, but the person who posted a question drives a turbo car. Therefore, he needs an answer that's related to turbocharged performance. Simple, no?

In this case the same info that was displayed on your computer was on mine.

Did you think I had not answered or responded to help them as a collective to understand? There is no supporting information that I have ever known to indicate it is better to have a hotter thermostat for any vehicle turbo or non turbo other than what was cited in the previous post. I had acknowledged their climates and the fact it's winter.

The non turbo car like the turbo still has hotwater circulating to heat the intake air. By installing a hotter T'stat it will then follow the air will get warmer before it even gets to the intake valves. People go to great lengths to install cold air ducts to the incoming air.

And if you had not noticed many makers are now going to plastic intakes, no water circulation and not heating the incoming. Rather they have incrseased the T'stat to 235-250F to better control emmisions yet allow the denser cold air into the engine.

Did you have a question or concern?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[92redman]

Obviously you might not need the lower-temp t-stat.

How does it take longer to warm up the engine?

Service manual is for stock factory cars. When you start modifying these cars, engines become hotter sooner and run hotter.

How would it not take longer to warm up the engine Think about it, when the t-stat opens, the coolant is now circulating through the radiator which is there to dissipate heat. Now if you have a t-stat that opens at let's say 160 degrees, then at 160 degrees which is roughly when the t-stat begins to open, you have started removing heat from the coolant. Now that you have started cooling at 160 instead of 190, it will take longer to get to operating temperature.

If you have a problem with overheating, get a better fan and/or radiator.

 

[GTM]

Winter and summer t-stats haven't been used since the 50's when the winter coolant used to be alcohol based which boiled at about 160deg. The only thing you gain from a lower temp t-stat is nothing. It takes longer to warm up the engine, and it will not keep the engine coolant cooler anyway, that is controlled by the fan.

The only way to reduce chance of overheating is with a larger radiator, more efficient fan or both.

Use what the service manual says to use.

Can you cite any authority for the grand sweeping statments?

Given: The tstat regulates engine temp, if you use a 160 it will regulate @160, if 180 then regulate at 180. Most certainly with all the rules of physics it will reach 160 sooner before it reaches 180.

The radiator regulates nothing, it exchanges the heat in the water for air blowing across it at a rate determined by the set point of the tstat, the available surface, and ambient air temp. Not to confuse those factors when trying to improve a given condition.

You are not the first to confuse these nor will you be the last. What are you studying in school? If you are still confused perhaps I can relate to some subject.

The manual does not cover all possible contingencies nor do they make mention of "tropical" radiators either. Local conditions influence decisions you must make just as age and condition of the vehicle so be careful when changing a tstat in a car that normally drives in hot desert areas for you could be inviting disaster.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Sotarts]

I really regeret for not being specific again, but I've mentioned only 180-degree thermostat and that's all I would recommned. I SERIOUSLY dismiss the possibility of 180-degree thermostat making your engine longer to warm up. It's not like you're supposed to sit there and idle the engine until it's fully warmed up. 10-degrees will not add decades to engine's warmup. I've replaced my thermostat on a stock turbo Laser, in the middle of winter, with a 180-degree thermostat and NOTHING has changed. Idle for a half or full minute and moderately drive the car until it's fully warmed up--that is the ideal and correct way to warm up the car.

 

[92redman]

Can you cite any authority for the grand sweeping statments?

Given: The tstat regulates engine temp, if you use a 160 it will regulate @160, if 180 then regulate at 180. Most certainly with all the rules of physics it will reach 160 sooner before it reaches 180.

The radiator regulates nothing, it exchanges the heat in the water for air blowing across it at a rate determined by the set point of the tstat, the available surface, and ambient air temp. Not to confuse those factors when trying to improve a given condition.

You are not the first to confuse these nor will you be the last. What are you studying in school? If you are still confused perhaps I can relate to some subject.

The manual does not cover all possible contingencies nor do they make mention of "tropical" radiators either. Local conditions influence decisions you must make just as age and condition of the vehicle so be careful when changing a tstat in a car that normally drives in hot desert areas for you could be inviting disaster.

Cheers,
GTM

I am studying cars in school. I am using a book called "Automotive Heating and Air Conditioning" by Tom Birch.

I am not confused, you must be. If you open the t-stat at 160 degrees, it will take longer to heat the coolant up to 200 than if you open the t-stat at 190 degrees.

Operating temperature of the engine the engine is designed to run at and temperature the t-stat opens are two different things. I am refering to operating temperture as somewhere between 200 and 220 degrees for most engines.

And again, lowering the t-stat opening temperature does not effect the temperature your coolant will be at when everything is warmed up, it will just take longer to get it there.

 

[92redman]

I really regeret for not being specific again, but I've mentioned only 180-degree thermostat and that's all I would recommned. I SERIOUSLY dismiss the possibility of 180-degree thermostat making your engine longer to warm up. It's not like you're supposed to sit there and idle the engine until it's fully warmed up. 10-degrees will not add decades to engine's warmup. I've replaced my thermostat on a stock turbo Laser, in the middle of winter, with a 180-degree thermostat and NOTHING has changed. Idle for a half or full minute and moderately drive the car until it's fully warmed up--that is the ideal and correct way to warm up the car.

If you are moving, it will take longer to warm up because when the t-stat starts to open you will be imediately cooling it via the air passing through the radiator. 10 degrees does not make much of a difference as you said, so why use a lower temp thermostat in the first place?

 

[Sotarts]

If you are moving, it will take longer to warm up because when the t-stat starts to open you will be imediately cooling it via the air passing through the radiator. 10 degrees does not make much of a difference as you said, so why use a lower temp thermostat in the first place?

Ok, dude. My cars warm up in a mile or so with very easy driving, with few stop signs and traffic lights--that's less than five minutes. If I idle the same car in 30-degree weather, it takes about ten minutes and more if it's colder.

The 10-degree difference will make unnoticeable (perhaps even noticeable) but mildly effective difference in warmer climates. When you modify turbocharged cars for performance, things change and every bit of lower temperatures helps. Aren't you a mechanic? You should know that.

 

[GTM]

I really regeret for not being specific again, but I've mentioned only 180-degree thermostat and that's all I would recommned. I SERIOUSLY dismiss the possibility of 180-degree thermostat making your engine longer to warm up. It's not like you're supposed to sit there and idle the engine until it's fully warmed up. 10-degrees will not add decades to engine's warmup. I've replaced my thermostat on a stock turbo Laser, in the middle of winter, with a 180-degree thermostat and NOTHING has changed. Idle for a half or full minute and moderately drive the car until it's fully warmed up--that is the ideal and correct way to warm up the car.
....................

I am studying cars in school. I am using a book called "Automotive Heating and Air Conditioning" by Tom Birch.


I am not confused, you must be. If you open the t-stat at 160 degrees, it will take longer to heat the coolant up to 200 than if you open the t-stat at 190 degrees.

Operating temperature of the engine the engine is designed to run at and temperature the t-stat opens are two different things. I am refering to operating temperture as somewhere between 200 and 220 degrees for most engines.


And again, lowering the t-stat opening temperature does not effect the temperature your coolant will be at when everything is warmed up, it will just take longer to get it there.
***************

While there will be a time delay for it to climb from say our 160 to our 180 a difference of 20 degrees, it is the regulating that we are trying to achieve. If engine boiling is a concern then it's better to have the reserve of the lower temp to give the engine that margin of safety which may only last a few minutes before the lag exchanging block and head heat into the cooling water up to the radiator.

Of course it's going to take longer to reach a higher temp but if the cooling system is working correctly then it will _regulate_ at the tstat set point. Perhaps what you typed is not what you meant.

If you are not comprehending then print out your posts and take them to your instructor and ask him to critique exactly what we read. I too have taught auto shop while being in the industry and nothing has changed except operating temps in 2004-2005 and the pressure caps.

Lets not loose site that the original poster had made no mention of an overheat so we are getting a bit off track because of incorrect information which it would be wise to make sure you are on solid ground and that what you type is what you meant. I would hope that you show the same respect you would any professional who is trying to help you.

Cheers,
GTM