Problems going forward (need help)

[Kyser]

After replacing the power steering rack my car does not want to go forward. We just finished replacing the power steering rack in my car and when we went to move it, the car basically bogged alot. If you just gradually release the clutch the car rolls forward fine but when you give it gas it feels like your trying to tow a semi behind you. Reverse seems perfectly fine, just releaseing the clutch and when giving it gas in reverse everything seems perfect its just trying to go forward doesnt seem to be happening. Only thing thats not on the car atm is the sway bar links, but we dont think thats the problem. Made sure the sway bar wasnt getting in the way of anything so now we are kinda thrown for a loop. If anyone has ideas please help cause I would really like to drive my car eventually.

~Lyle

 

[Doug99RS]

How did you set the toe after installing the rack? Counting threads is normally only good enough to make it to the alignment shop. Even then that's normally done when you just replace a tie rod end. Not an entire rack. It sounds like your toe may be way out causing alot of resistance when rolling the car.
Doug

 

[Kyser]

The toe is not that far out of whack. The car rolls forword just fine. just when you try it in gear it feels like there is a semi behind you but you put it in reverse and all is good, just forword is messed up. Engine revs up just fine, i dont think it is engine. I did drop part of the subframe at first, when trying to do the rack and all back together just fine. Kind of lost at this point any thoughts

 

[crankbender]

can ya tell us a little more about what you disconnected and then reconnected for the fix. Did you check the fluid levels in the tranny and transfer case.

have you tried rolling it forward in gear with the clutch pushed in. how about out of gear?

if you jack up the front can you turn the wheels...they should turn in opposite directions.

 

[Kyser]

1. Lowered the subframe, disconnected the downpipe, disconnected everything dealing with the power steering rack, sway bar was disconnected(currently doesnt have any swaybar links, getting those monday), removed the transfer case, thats about everything I can think of off hand.

2. Just letting off the clutch slowly is fine its just when gas is applied. Also it seems to run fine when NONE of the tires are on the ground. When we had it racked I was able to put it in gear and run it through the rpms in first with no problems, just seems when there a load on the car that it stumbles and bogs.

3. Replaced all the fluids in both the transfer case and the transmission.

4. Tires move like they are supposed too and there is no resistance when just rolling forward slowly, only when its under load.

Cant think of much else atm.

~Lyle

 

[Doug99RS]

I've pulled out a transfer case a few times and feel fairly certain that once you get it to slide on the splines then it's good to go and most everything will line up. But thinking along a mis-alignment of components frame of mind was there anything that was unusually difficult to reinstall? Something that maybe bound up and was installed a little off? Brake calipers properly bolted up? Wheels properly torqued? Anything that may be binding up under a load that you can double check?

I've posted this in the wiseman forum so hopefully we'll get some more thoughts in here.
Doug

 

[Kyser]

My brother started pulling the power steering rack thursday night and had one hell of a rough time of it. We didnt know we had to drop the transfer case to be able to get the rack out so A) we couldnt get it out after everything was disconnected and B) we where playing in there with very little room. Figured out finally that we needed to drop the transfer case but at this point it was to late to mess with so we just hooked everything back up so we could move the car into the back lot. This was when we first realized there was a problem. We backed the car out of the stall fine and put it into gear. Just easing out the clutch was fine like I said but when he tried to give it gas it just bogged down hardcore. Put it back up in the air and tried to check stuff out and couldnt find anything. Thus we limped it out into the back lot like that and left it for the evening.

Friday night after work he pulled the car back in with the same problems and put it in the air. Pulling everything apart and out this time was a breeze cause we pulled the transfer case which gave us so much more room to play with. Changed the lines over to the new rack put everything together minus installing the sway bar due to the links bing broken. At this point we also changed the transfer case and tranny fluids. We then backed it out and started to move it to the alignment machine.

At this point we realized that it still had the same problem. Proceed to put it up in the air a few more times tinkering with stuff trying to figure out what was putting the load on it. We are very lost on what it could be or how to fix it. The first evening he did put pressure on various pieces under the car to get leverage and such but we dont think we could have really shifted anything. Plus we cant see anything that would put drag on the car when in gear. Such a weird problem.

~Lyle

Dont know if this means anything but my brother whos been helping me with all this stuff is a ford mechanic and we have been doing this stuff at the dealership after hours so we are just playing this stuff by ear till we have a chance to mess with it again monday night.

 

[Doug99RS]

One thing brought up by another wiseman was to pull the outer-most cover of the transmission and check the 5th gear nut. It's right there on the end and does not require removal of the transmission from the vehicle. I don't know what the symptoms are for this condition though I have heard of a problem with it and the final sign is a hole in the transmission case.

Another problem they mentioned was possible internal transmission component failure/problems. Hopefully the wiseman will help out hear and explain it better than I could.

I know when I replace power steering racks or tie rod ends that I can never seem to get the toe just right without putting it on the alignment right. Prior to that I know that the tires themselves are fighting each other quite a bit since the toe is way out. What are the chances you could go ahead and put it on the alignment rack and take some measurements? I know what I'm looking at when it comes to alignment specs and you said your brother is a ford mechanic. So between all of us we should be able to tell if the problem is alignment or not. What makes me question alignment is A: the rack has been replaced and B: even prior to the rack removal you said the cradle was dropped.

I recently did a rack in a vehicle requiring the lowering of the cradle. What I forgot to do was mark the cradle to the chassis so I knew I put it back in the same spot. As a result of my failure to do this, the caster was out quite a bit when I finally had it aligned. Your problem started after the cradle was dropped the first time even though the rack wasn't replaced until later. I wonder if the cradle is out enough to cause this problem.
Doug

 

[Kyser]

Monday evening after hes done with work hes going to replace the sway bar links and Im sure we can put it on the alignment rack and see what it tells us, that shouldnt be a problem. The subframe was actually just lowered not completely dropped so I dont know if that going to make a difference or not.

Now dealing with the toe issue wouldnt it fight going forward no matter what? Like it doesnt seem to fight at all when just rolling forward slowly by just releasing the clutch only when you give it gas.

Im sorry if I cant get more specific but my bros the mechanic, im just the helper usually. Trying to learn as I go so I can do more repairs on my own. Ill try to get more specific details and such from my brother later tonight but Im stuck at work atm so theres only so much I can do.

Also why would the transmission be the coulperate when we didnt even mess with it at all? And what would we be looking for with the 5th gear nut? Or what would that generally have to do with anything since this has all been done in first gear?

~Lyle

 

[crankbender]

Hi all I was the one discussing this with doug . As he stated the 5th gear nut has a tendency to fall off and bog things down in the tranny then blow the case apart...hopefull that is your problem:

Symptoms over time as it backs off: The car will have wiggle in 5th gear. When you hit the gas then go to coast at highway speeds (i know you can't check this at the moment) the shifter will move quite a bit front to back during the change from acceleration to coasting. It should be very stable in 5th!!!

The other problem I was explaining is that our gears are not straight cut (except for reverse!!!!). Hence this is why reverse whines and no other gear does. This means that as you apply torque to the gears it will produce a lateral force on the shafts in the tranny. This force could cause a failing tranny (with loose nuts and such ) to bind. It would be torque and not speed dependent. It sounds like this MAY be your problem.

Maybe somebody can help you diagnose this a little better. You may be able to drop the drive shaft (tie it up with a coat hanger or something here you arn't trying to actually drive anywhere...just be sure it will be secure as it turns.) and see if it will run as a FWD there by ruling out the Xfer case and rear diff as the binding areas.

A toe problem should be speed dependent not torque dependent.

 

[Kyser]

Talking to my brother he says its more of a sensation of like it being in 2 gears at once.

~Lyle

 

[crankbender]

That is what it will feel like when one shaft begins to slide sideways and rub on everything...... did you try rolling it in gear with the clutch disengaged and the engine off?

Think of it like this one of the 2 shafts with the gears on them could be moving sideways and rubbing on shat.... with a gear angle of like 30 degrees it will cause a LOT of sideways force.

 

[Kyser]

I kind of understand what your saying and no we havnt put it in gear and just tryed to push it forward. If this happens to be the issue what would we be able to do to fix it and how would we have gotten it messed up like this just by removing the steering rack?

~Lyle

 

[crankbender]

The problem was probably starting before then. Pop off the end of the case before you turn that tranny over again and see if that nut is loose. Also drain the tranny fluid first and look for metal shavings.

IT is just the nut at the end of the shaft.

pull this cover and check torque on the 2 nuts inside. as doug stated you can do it in the car.

Try pushing the car backwards too do not rotate the engine backwards doing this!!!

 

[Kyser]

Well I can say there was no metal shavings with the tranny fluid seeing as we just changed that yesterday and everything was fine. Ill have my bro read this and guess we will go from there.

I just want my damn car to run, is that too much to ask, guess thats what I get for buying a 14 year old "fun" car. Ah well thats life.

~Lyle

 

[crankbender]

hey man stuff breaks thats why 14 year old cars are cheap. learn to diagnose the fix them and you will love it for the rest of your life!!

BTW if that nut comes all the way off when you are driving you will blow the tranny into pieces or atleast put a hole in the cover.

 

[Kyser]

Ill have to make sure and check all this stuff as I can in the next few days. The car wont be coming home until its fixed, mainly cause its not driveable. I wonder how my bros boss is gunna feel about it, ah well not much I can do.

~Lyle

 

[crankbender]

if it is just the nut it is like a 30 min fix...10 with air tools.

 

[Kyser]

I really do hope so, and having access to a lift and all the power tools and stuff I could ever need has been a life saver.

~Lyle

 

[crankbender]

Also remember that if you were grabbing 2 gears at once it would not be dependent on the input torque. Even if you had a failing bearing it would be speed dependent not torque dependent.

Hard to trouble shoot from here but this is how i take it.

The problem is directional dependent, force vector dependent (ok when you push it) and load dependent.
The problem does not happen in reverse.

That kinda rules out grabbing 2 gears at once...like i said it could be something failed in the driveline (xfer case and read diff) but Ya gonna have to try and find out that one I can't do it from here.

To me it does sound like it is dependent on those angled gears....

 

[Kyser]

Ok this is Jim kyser's bro. I took the drive shaft off the dam thing and it still will not go forword in gear. The car acts up when you put it in gear and try and move it forword feels like you are starting the car with a semi on your rear end. The tranny nut sounds like a good place to start will check that on monday. The toe is not that bad and the camber is not off. The subframe was lowered but there is no way to budge or move it any direction so i dont think the subframe is misalingned.

 

[Doug99RS]

Thanks for the update, we look forward to hearing good news on Monday

 

[Kyser]

So am I, if this stuff doesnt help/fix it I hope someone he works with will have ideas, specially since some of them have been doing this kind of work(well not on dsm's but cars in general) for a long ass time. Plus its alot easier to make calls on stuff when you can actually look at everything instead of trying to read what other people think is wrong and make a call.

~Lyle

 

[Doug99RS]

Yes, our crystal ball isn't 100%. Good luck

 

[Kyser]

Well the problem it seems turns out to be that Im in 3rd gear. Somehow when I put it in 1st im actually putting it in 3rd and then 2nd is 4th and 3rd is 5th. So now my brother and the guys by him either have to figure it out or limp the car home in 3rd gear so we can play with it there.

Needless to say im very happy that its just a stupid problem such as this instead of being something internally wrong with the transmission. Now I just need to figure out how to reset the gears so that I have 1st and 2nd gear again.

~Lyle