Propane instead of Nitrous?

[TuRbOTaLoN96]

I Was on a website not to long ago, and it mentioned something about someone using propane instead of nitrous. I was wondering if it is possible. If So would it hurt your engine. Has anyone else heard of this method?

 

[Black94TSI]

Propane on gas cars is used as a race gas supplement, in much the same way Alcohol Injection is used. TurboBuick.com has some good info on Propane injection in gasoline applications. Personally I would rather use Alcohol, no bottle pressure to worry about, no filling stations to find, etc. I tried propane, but gas stations that actually filled the smaller bottles were getting harder and harder to find.

 

[TuRbOTaLoN96]

thanks man I appreciate the info. I didn't know anything about it. Is it worth running? What's it really do? Same thing as nitrous or something totally different.

 

[c5chris]

Propane has the same effect as nitrous on a DIESEL engine.

 

[Colossus]

Propane is used to help reduce knock. It helps to reduce the piston temperatures and thus reduce knocks, allowing for higher PSI and more pressure. You can combine it with other things. For example, you could inject both nitrous and propane. This would allow a larger shot of nitrous because with the propane combination it reduces your knock greatly, allowing you to use greater amounts of nitrous. It can also be used to increase boost pressure quite a bit. It's used a lot at the tracks and such for times, and not very often on the street. Propane kits I've seen run for around $200+. Good kits.

 

[PaleDSM]

I have been running an IPO propane kit for a few years and it works fantastic. I have no problems filling the bottle (5#) and it lasts for a good 2 months per fill up in my situation.

I can run roughly 5 psi more boost on pump gas than I can without it.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Propane has the same effect as nitrous on a DIESEL engine.

No, no it doesn't.

 

[ShadowWulf]

This has my intrest now. How much more of a nitrous shot could be run, safely, on a 2g NT using propane injection. Im already using the NX Wet kit, and a 75 shot. Could propane be used, for instance, to allow me to bump my shot up to a 85-100 for short runs only?

Also, does it just T into the nitrous line already running to my intake, or will it require another line of its own, before or after the N2O?

Hummmmmm



<<<<Runs off to Google

 

[CanadianTalon]

If you can run a 100 HP hit of juice on race gas, you can run a 100 HP hit of juice on propane. Lots of viper guys are hitting a 300+ horse shot on pump gas with propane. IIRC they are injecting the propane along with the nitrous in the jet, just like it was a fuel jet.

Alcohol is a better choice for a turbocharged motor, IMO. I had a turbo buick and I was able to run 10 pounds more boost with some more timing spraying Methanol. With an OGS ProPain kit it would bog down right when boost came on and there wasn't anything I could do to fix it other than move up the activation point, which gave me some transitional knock.

 

[MNGSX]

No, no it doesn't.

In fact Banks Diesel says propane kits just exist to sell themselves and are crap... Propane does nothing you cant do with a fueler box or chip... N20 does what propane cant... When you enrich the diesel fuel mixture you can actually burn it all without making tons of smoke and buring exh valves,

 

[Colossus]

This has my intrest now. How much more of a nitrous shot could be run, safely, on a 2g NT using propane injection. Im already using the NX Wet kit, and a 75 shot. Could propane be used, for instance, to allow me to bump my shot up to a 85-100 for short runs only?

Also, does it just T into the nitrous line already running to my intake, or will it require another line of its own, before or after the N2O?

Hummmmmm



<<<<Runs off to Google

You must realize that there is no standard for how high of a shot you can run besides the minimum of 75. Once you begin to go higher, you can't just be like oh wow, I started at 75, and now because of this propane I can instaly run another 25 and do a 100 shot!! It doens't work in stages. What you need is a logger, yes an actual logger, not your ears and prayers.

You'll setup everything, spray uour 75 shot, log how much knock you get. Then spray with propane and relog. Once you've tuned for 0 knock with propane on nitrous, you step it up to whatever the next combination of pills puts you at. We'll just say the next combo you have is from 75 to 100. Well, you'd spray 100 with your propane running tuned to get you 0 knock on 75 and see how much knock the 100 gives you. Then you retune so that the propane ideally gives you 0 knock yet again. You just keep going and going until you can't keep the knock down to the level you want it (0). Once you've found that point where you get knock, but it's not low enough that you want it, you back up a step. So, say you can't tune that 100 shot for 0 knock. Well, guess you're going back down to 75 with 0 knock. It's all in the tuning that helps you run a higher shot. It varies.

 

[Redmachine]

In fact Banks Diesel says propane kits just exist to sell themselves and are crap... Propane does nothing you cant do with a fueler box or chip... N20 does what propane cant... When you enrich the diesel fuel mixture you can actually burn it all without making tons of smoke and buring exh valves,

You guys don't watch TRUCKS! do you? THey get an average of 150 extra horse shooting propane into a powerstroke diesel. Then they can add N20 for even more juice.
http://bullydog.com/products.pl?item=Ford_Propane_Injection-F-E-

 

[MNGSX]

I tell you what lets run Banks turbo systems shop trucks vs what they build on trucks...


Propane = Fuel

N20 = Oxidizer..

Diesel also = Fuel

Fuel Controller = more fuel diesel + N20 = > than propane plus N20...

 

[Redmachine]

I tell you what lets run Banks turbo systems shop trucks vs what they build on trucks...


Propane = Fuel

N20 = Oxidizer..

Diesel also = Fuel

Fuel Controller = more fuel diesel + N20 = > than propane plus N20...

I'll tell you what you seem to be missing.
Diesel does not ignite like regular fuel ,it is compressed to the point of ignition hence the lack of sparkplugs. So adding a fuel like propane that ignites in a completly different manner, adds power.
N20 as a whole is not a oxidizer just the oxygen portion which is uses as fuel. the nitrogen portion acts as a stabilizer.

 

[MNGSX]

mmmkay.. Buy everything on hicknn tv or HSN?

http://www.bankspower.com/tech_propane.cfm

For maximum power rigs, such as those used in pickup pull or truck pull contests, or even diesel light truck drag racing, propane injection can be used as a way to further increase power on a diesel that has already been extensively modified, especially if it been modified to the point of overfueling. However, under these same circumstances, we believe equal or greater power gains can be achieved with less expense and trouble by installing nitrous oxide injection (see "Nitrous Oxide & the Diesel" elsewhere on this site).

The bottom line: save the propane for the stove and the furnace.

http://www.bankspower.com/tech_nitrousoxide.cfm

 

[Colossus]

Nitrous and Propane are two very different things. Propane acts somewhat like water/methanol injection. Propane, when injected, reduces cylinder temperature. Reduced cylinder temperature causes less knock. This is what the primary use of Propane is on imports, to reduce knock count and allow for higher boost/nitrous combination or usage. Nitrous simply creates denser air and forces it into the engine for consumption. Using propane in combination with nitrous will allow you to achieve a higher shot of nitrous with a lesser effect on the motor, less knock, less chance of detonation.

Now, there's only one conflict with using nitrous and propane together. With nitrous you normally gap your plugs a bit smaller, for a better spark. Propane will slow the burn inside the cylinders, when nitrous somewhat increases it. So, you'll have a conflict. No, it won't harm anything, but I just thought I'd add that bit of information in for you.

Nitrous = denser air for more power
Propane = cooler cylinder temperatures for reduced knock count allowing for more PSI/Nitrous

Edit: Whoopsy. Didn't realize I already posted once, guess this can be considered a reinforcement of my previous statement.

 

[Redmachine]

here is a dyno sheet and a webpage for a turboed duramax with propane injection
http://www.dieselsite.com/propane/dmax.htm

 

[greycar]

OK, get one thing straight PROPANE is a FUEL. NITROUS is strickly a oxidizer. Don't try and relate diesel engines to gas engines, they are totally different. Yes propane burns cooler than gas as well as alcohol and diesel fuel. You can add propane or alcohol to a gas engine, but keep in mind you are adding more fuel, ok so now you have more fuel so you can add more boost and or nitrous. Since boost and nitrous are both AIR/ oxidizers to allow for the fuel to burn, because you have to have OXYGEN for fire to take place. Since regular street air doesn't contain that much oxygen we add NO2, you use NO2 because straight O2 is to unstable you add a nitrogen molecule wich is strickly unused in the situation/ inert. Remember whenever you add more air(boost or NO2) you will need to provide more fuel(gas, alcohol, propane) you may want to research burn temps of each fuel before going any further and unstanding AFRs can't hurt either.

 

[Itzallstock]

This may have been answered up above but i didnt understand it,
If you use Nitro and the propane combo, would the seloniod be hooked up to an exsisting nitro system? So when you press the button you get propane and nitrous at the same time? Will using propane with a small shot of nitrous let you run longer on the nitrous? Get a little bit more engine life????

-Ben

 

[chevota]

This propane thing is making me think... Ok, propane has like 115 octane or something if I remember correctly?
Here is where my mind is at: Normal gas motor running gasoline thru the injectors, all oem.
Typical single nozzle "wet" nitrous kit, but the fuel solenoid is hooked to LIQUID propane instead of gasoline.
This has got to better for the engine right? Cooler, more octane, etc. Or are there complications; like the propane expands to gas too quickly in the intake and displaces air?

If propane is a bad idea in this app, how many have tried alcohol? Just need a seperate tank, pump, and huge fuel jetting increase right? Hmmm, would be nice to squeeze and the cyl temp doesn't go up.
Any thoughts out there?

 

[ShadowWulf]

For a propane setup, i would use a manual switch for the propane and n20, have them linked together so when one fires the other will also fire at the same time.


Im getting ready to do this myself, using a NX kit for the soloinids and hoses and adaptors for the bottle fittings...however im stil stumped as to where to mount the bottle, and what size/type/spec bottle to even use. I havent been able to find any pictures of any propane setups yet on the site either for a N/T.....
Some may rember my forum thread awhile back asking the same questions in another area...maybe now i can get some advice on bottle type and mounting? Im just waiting on this before i proceed...

 

[PaleDSM]

This propane thing is making me think... Ok, propane has like 115 octane or something if I remember correctly?
Here is where my mind is at: Normal gas motor running gasoline thru the injectors, all oem.
Typical single nozzle "wet" nitrous kit, but the fuel solenoid is hooked to LIQUID propane instead of gasoline.
This has got to better for the engine right? Cooler, more octane, etc. Or are there complications; like the propane expands to gas too quickly in the intake and displaces air?

If propane is a bad idea in this app, how many have tried alcohol? Just need a seperate tank, pump, and huge fuel jetting increase right? Hmmm, would be nice to squeeze and the cyl temp doesn't go up.
Any thoughts out there?

It sounds like you are talking about a typical propane injection kit like a few of us run.

 

[Itzallstock]

Can i fill my nitrous tank with propane and jsut try to inject that?
-Ben
(wet kit)

 

[tacoman123]

I read the propane cannot be used with an open loop system, if its sprayed after the throttle body. I was just wondering, can there be a controller switch, when the throttle plate is closed, the propane is purged from between the solenoid and the jet, so it doesn't get into the intake?

What do you guys think?

-Tahleel

 

[ShadowWulf]

Can i fill my nitrous tank with propane and jsut try to inject that?
-Ben
(wet kit)

In most states theres pretty stringent propane laws on containers, at least in CA i know you cannon use a nitrous container for propane, even though a nitrous container is stronger because the damn state says so......

Use another dry kit (all youll need when used in conjunction with a wet nitrous kit) and a small 1-10lb propane only bottle. Wire the switches together so one switch fires both the propane and the nitrous at the same time......im sure theres a cleaner way to do this BUT since nobody here actually seems to know physically thats my best guess. Its how im going to run it anyways, 2 nossles one for niotrous one single for the propane, wet n20 and straight propane at i believe 900psi or so.

Now im not sure what the effects of puddling would be, as nitrous cand gas can puddle or build to unsafe levels in the motor i would imagine propane way as well, with proably the same results in a worst case scenario. All i need to get down now is the jetting size for the propane to run well with my 75 shot nitrous. However, ive yet to see a propane jet chart since most kits are all pre-built and jetted it seems.......