1G: So I think I found my surge problem -__-

[fonzi90Tsi]

So story is I aquired a fully rebuilt 1g talon with engagement problems. Long story short took me about 4 months to get it moving.

Well for the past month I have been battling a surge problem. Read all the threads including Terrys trouble shooting guide, which has helped alot. Took me this long to figure out this problem but I just want confirmation from the experts on here to if it dounds like its my problem.(like I think it is)

Well finally got some time to start checking everything over. Everything was checking out in spec till I came to my BISS. Just for $h!t$ I went to put a screwdriver to it and its all the way closed. Granted my car idles around 800rpms. So I check both fiagnostics ports and come to find out they have never been tampered with. Still have the factory tape on the outside one and the rubber cover on the inside one.

So my question is how should I go about fixing this? I was thinking of buying the BISS kit just to be on the safe side. Also I will be using the BISS adjustment guide here 1G BISS Adjustment to put it all back into spec. Does this sound about right?



Thanks for all the help guy!

Alonso

[urbansmoker1]

I've got to do that too, if you have dsmlink you at least wont have to ground the physical diagnostic wire, cause link can ground it for you. Otherwise sounds right to me. also check if your coolant kinked to your TB are linked or anything, mine were.

[fonzi90Tsi]

Thanks!

Will be getting link soon! Does the palm logger ground the inside terminal like the tmo loggers do?

Coolant lines to the tb can cause surge?

[urbansmoker1]

If it gets too hot yeah it can open/ messup the ISC readings to the ECU. its for the FIAV (fast idle air valve) which if switched on during the wrong time would cause surge like symptoms. I wouldn't know about the palm loggers, i only have link.

[fonzi90Tsi]

Ahh ok.i see.

But wouldnt that mean the surge would.come when the car is warmed uo? I have it immediately on startup.

[urbansmoker1]

Ahhhh oh mine it would surge after pulls, if your surging cold its prob just your fiav doing its job its supposed to give you high idle until your car is warm

[fonzi90Tsi]

Even after it warms up?

[urbansmoker1]

Mine would surge when warm yes.... Is yours giving surge while warm and cold?

[urbansmoker1]

Have you even checked fir boost leaks?

Get the biss kit and post back you idling at 800 is fine check for boost leaks cause they can cause surge too

[fonzi90Tsi]

Yes both warm and cold. And I just ordered a blt. Dont have time to make ome

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by fonzi90Tsi

Yes both warm and cold. And I just ordered a blt. Dont have time to make ome

wow lol, if you have time to post on dsmtuners, you have tome to go to the hardware store and get a tire stem, PVC pipe cap and a plumming rubber coupler reducer for what ever your turbo inlet sizes is to what ever PCV cap size you got.. lol it literally takes 15 minutes, you can do it on a work break even hahaha no time.. i dont buy it

[fonzi90Tsi]

You caught me just lazy. And the fact I dont have a car to go to the store till this car passes emissions..

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by fonzi90Tsi

You caught me just lazy. And the fact I dont have a car to go to the store till this car passes emissions..

yeah emissions suck, i dont have them where i live, good luck, i bet all this will chalk down to being a boost leak.

[jmartinez1228]

Originally Posted by fonzi90Tsi

Yes both warm and cold. And I just ordered a blt. Dont have time to make ome

Putting in a new BISS screw may not fix your issue. You NEED to check for boost leaks.

Have you removed your emissions crap? If not there are a bunch of vacuum hoses that lead to the throttle body, any one of those hoses can be cracked and causing a small leak.

Idle surge can be caused by alot of things so you have to make sure you cover all areas.

If you go to VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questionsclick on the link that says Access main page HERE. It will show you how to remove your vacuum lines under short tips I believe.

good luck I have battled idle surge on my 90 before and it's FUN!!!

[fonzi90Tsi]

Yeah whats on their is all the stock rubber piping that hasnt been messed with. So I wouldnt doubt it. I went over all the piping to check for visible holes/loose connections but couldnt find any. I even switched all the worm clamps to some tbolt clamps I had laying around. But like you said it might just be a leak I cant see.


Boost leak test coming up!
Will update when done!
Thanks urban!

Originally Posted by jmartinez1228

Putting in a new BISS screw may not fix your issue. You NEED to check for boost leaks.

Have you removed your emissions crap? If not there are a bunch of vacuum hoses that lead to the throttle body, any one of those hoses can be cracked and causing a small leak.

Idle surge can be caused by alot of things so you have to make sure you cover all areas.

If you go to VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questionsclick on the link that says Access main page HERE. It will show you how to remove your vacuum lines under short tips I believe.

good luck I have battled idle surge on my 90 before and it's FUN!!!

Thats just it I cant remove those lines till I pass emissions. But I will look over them right now.

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by fonzi90Tsi

Boost leak test coming up!
Will update when done!
Thanks urban!

reputation points are always appreciated trying to get rid of my red chicklet cause someone was angry and decided to flame bomb my rep in a certain post

[jmartinez1228]

I don't know much about CA emissions but in Ct I passed without them and that was just a hair over legal lol.
Good luck though, keep us posted.

Originally Posted by fonzi90Tsi

Yeah whats on their is all the stock rubber piping that hasnt been messed with. So I wouldnt doubt it. I went over all the piping to check for visible holes/loose connections but couldnt find any. I even switched all the worm clamps to some tbolt clamps I had laying around. But like you said it might just be a leak I cant see.


Boost leak test coming up!
Will update when done!
Thanks urban!



Thats just it I cant remove those lines till I pass emissions. But I will look over them right now.

[fonzi90Tsi]

Yeah I saw that Urban.

And jmartinez ours is the worst.

[urbansmoker1]

California are emissions nazis even though they take such great "precautions" for their smog, there is still plenty of in in LA lol interesting how that crap doesnt really make a difference.

[fonzi90Tsi]

Ok guys so I still have not got to boost leak test it yet.

But that asife I decided to do some morw inspecting and find out my isc is only being held on by 1 bolt. Ugh
So I put a bold in it. Start the car and still surge.

Other details

Vac is at 16-18hg
Car smells lean
When I followw Terrys guid and unplug the idle switch my idle does not stabilize like he say.
Checked for vac leaks and cant find any
Surge when cold and hot
Once car gets fully warm it starts to stumble just a tiny bit
Tb has all new gaskets

[urbansmoker1]

Whats your wide band say when it surges? If it goes really rich and then lean you need to get your fuel trims in line, that can cause surge also.

[fonzi90Tsi]

No wideband yet. Will get one

Why would fuel trims ne outta whack if I stock minus the s16g?

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by fonzi90Tsi

No wideband yet. Will get one

Why would fuel trims ne outta whack if I stock minus the s16g?

i guess you wouldent, unless you have a bad front o2 sensor, do you have stock injectors still too?

[Tyeler18]

Originally Posted by urbansmoker1

Whats your wide band say when it surges? If it goes really rich and then lean you need to get your fuel trims in line, that can cause surge also.

Incorrect. Its supposed to go dead lean. It is supposed to cut fuel when it hits 1200 rpms to drop down to the ecu set idle. It is completely normal for a surging dsm to go lean.

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by Tyeler18

Incorrect. Its supposed to go dead lean. It is supposed to cut fuel when it hits 1200 rpms to drop down to the ecu set idle. It is completely normal for a surging dsm to go lean.

incorrect? i was saying swinging from lean to rich can cause surges because the engine will try to burn the extra fuel at a higher RPM, im well aware of how the WB works and when its supposed to read lean

[DSMTyson]

Originally Posted by Tyeler18

Incorrect. Its supposed to go dead lean. It is supposed to cut fuel when it hits 1200 rpms to drop down to the ecu set idle. It is completely normal for a surging dsm to go lean.

Yep. This is almost always caused by a vacuum leak. Been there, fixed that.

Find it.

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by DSMTyson

Yep. This is almost always caused by a vacuum leak. Been there, fixed that.

Find it.

yep we have all been telling him to do a BLT and were still waiting on results.

[fonzi90Tsi]

Boost leak test will be done soon.

So I thought a bad o2 would make it run rich. Yes still stock injectors.

[Tyeler18]

Originally Posted by urbansmoker1

incorrect? i was saying swinging from lean to rich can cause surges because the engine will try to burn the extra fuel at a higher RPM, im well aware of how the WB works and when its supposed to read lean

That's why you told him to adjust his fuel trims on a basically bone stock car.

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by Tyeler18

That's why you told him to adjust his fuel trims on a basically bone stock car.

i said he needs to get them IN LINE and a bad o2 sensor usually runs/shows leaner, so to get them in line for him= new o2 sensor.. duh.. IF that is the issue. OP said it smells lean, well thats not really much of an indication of much cause there is no feedback to verify. Whens the last time the o2 sensor was replaced? COULD make a world of difference. I know mine did when i was stock and i replaced it.