2G: 97 gsx multiple questions

kevinhartman · 06-03-2012, 03:02 PM

just aquired first eclipse. it is a 97 gsx with a 95 motor swap. has had a turbo upgrade and a few other things listed on my mods lsit. dont know too much about the car. it still has the stock ecu. wanting to find a way to program and lean the car out. its burning way to rich! i have the boost controller all the way down and will still carry itself to 10-12 psi. the car wants to shut off at idle and stumbles around 3-4k. i am assuming that it is just bogging down due to too much fuel. needing some help on this issue as it is my first tuner. making the transistion from american muscle

Spoolin92GSX · 06-03-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinhartman

just aquired first eclipse. it is a 97 gsx with a 95 motor swap. has had a turbo upgrade and a few other things listed on my mods lsit. dont know too much about the car. it still has the stock ecu. wanting to find a way to program and lean the car out. its burning way to rich! i have the boost controller all the way down and will still carry itself to 10-12 psi. the car wants to shut off at idle and stumbles around 3-4k. i am assuming that it is just bogging down due to too much fuel. needing some help on this issue as it is my first tuner. making the transistion from american muscle

Have you done a boost leak test? That sounds more like one or more significant leaks, which can cause you to run richer on boost. Is it rich at idle also, or does it tip towards the lean side?

954g63gst · 06-03-2012, 03:12 PM

sounds like a boost leak you should make a BLT useing a coupler over the turbo with a valve stem in the center of a round plate hose clamped to the open end of the coupler pump 15 psi in it and squrt the throttle body with soapy water and work your way down fix all spots the bubble

kevinhartman · 06-03-2012, 03:15 PM

it runs extremely rich at idle. as i start to give some fuel it will lean out and then as the rpms go up it starts to feel as tho it wants to bog down. at idle i am getting very lil smoke but lots of vapor. it is extremely rich. and its also like my boost will start to build fast and then bog the motor down and then catch up and take off when i accelerate as well

Tyeler18 · 06-03-2012, 03:21 PM

You have boost leaks.

kevinhartman · 06-03-2012, 03:27 PM

ok will do a leak test, where do i place the adaptor that i would build to make the test? also my bov valve is constantly either sucking in or letting air escape. it is fully adjusted as much as it will go to close off the valve. if i unplug the vacume on the bov it completely seals and the motor runs amazingly. if i plug the vacume in it starts to run rough again and wants to bog down? more than likely the prob. but is still running rich either way

jtmcinder · 06-03-2012, 03:33 PM

Rich at idle is more likely to be a bad O2 sensor or the hose to the FPR is missing/blocked. Do you have a wideband or is this via the sniffer-test?

bryanwheat · 06-03-2012, 03:34 PM

Place the leak tester in the turbo inlet. As for the bov it is opening because there is vacuum pulling it open at idle. I am guessing that you don't have it recirculated?

kevinhartman · 06-03-2012, 03:40 PM

dont know what you mean by recirculated, and as for the wideband i only say that because of what i was told was in the car. it does have the o2 sensor change with the newer elec pick ups on the sensors. i saw where the wiring was doe. and at idle my afr guage is blank but at about 2k rpm it is reading about 12 to 14. and as i increase rpm it drops to about 10

Spoolin92GSX · 06-03-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtmcinder

Rich at idle is more likely to be a bad O2 sensor or the hose to the FPR is missing/blocked. Do you have a wideband or is this via the sniffer-test?

This. Hopefully your stock o2 sensor is in place, replace it and you should see improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinhartman

dont know what you mean by recirculated, and as for the wideband i only say that because of what i was told was in the car. it does have the o2 sensor change with the newer elec pick ups on the sensors. i saw where the wiring was doe. and at idle my afr guage is blank but at about 2k rpm it is reading about 12 to 14. and as i increase rpm it drops to about 10

Recirculated means that the large port where the bov actually blows out is routed back to the intake pipe between your air filter and turbo. If this is vented to open atmosphere it can cause a plethora of problems. ~10:1 isn't that rich for open loop, 12:1 is definitely a bit much for idle though. Get your hands on a data logger, it will save you so many headaches. You'll be able to SEE if your o2 sensor is working properly without wasting the money to replace it.

kevinhartman · 06-03-2012, 03:56 PM

ok as for the data logger what to use? or what options do i have?

and the bov is open. can i run my system with the bov undone? or will i blow the system?

Spoolin92GSX · 06-03-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinhartman

ok as for the data logger what to use? or what options do i have?

and the bov is open. can i run my system with the bov undone? or will i blow the system?

Well, running with the BOV vented shouldn't blow anything up, but it generally kills drivability..
As for loggers, the only one I know of for sure is EvoScan. I'm sure some 2g guys can chime in with other options.

kevinhartman · 06-03-2012, 04:20 PM

ok? should i worry about changing my ecu as well? and should i get the data cable only or the flasher as well? i have the stock metal covered ecu. not the black plastic

Spoolin92GSX · 06-03-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinhartman

ok? should i worry about changing my ecu as well? and should i get the data cable only or the flasher as well? i have the stock metal covered ecu. not the black plastic

I wouldn't worry about the ECU until you've checked/eliminated everything else as a possibility. Honestly I don't want to say too much about EvoScan/EcuFlash as I really don't know much about them, but I would say it depends on your budget - if you can afford to get the whole shebang for flashing, might as well while you're there.. Otherwise I would focus on being able to datalog and get the car running tip top first

kevinhartman · 06-03-2012, 09:21 PM

well ran the car kinda hard after screwing with the bov. got it to run better as far as studdering but it was running 18 to 1 on the afr. extremely rich. after running it hard i started hearing a tick. long story short i found out the head on this motor is from a non turbo car. and well im bout to drop a valve. so im putting a new head on tomorrow that can handle the power of a turb. gotta love buying used things. lol. at least now i know what i have in it.

any ideas or suggestions on what i should do while im doing the rebuild? mods or cheap changes?

Spoolin92GSX · 06-03-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinhartman

well ran the car kinda hard after screwing with the bov. got it to run better as far as studdering but it was running 18 to 1 on the afr. extremely rich. after running it hard i started hearing a tick. long story short i found out the head on this motor is from a non turbo car. and well im bout to drop a valve. so im putting a new head on tomorrow that can handle the power of a turb. gotta love buying used things. lol. at least now i know what i have in it.

any ideas or suggestions on what i should do while im doing the rebuild? mods or cheap changes?

Okay, woah you're reading your AFR backwards, 18:1 is insanely LEAN and very dangerous if that was at WOT/full boost. As for the head, I'd recommend revised lash adjusters (lifters) and quality machine work. There's not much to mod on our heads that benefit a "mostly" stock engine, focus on the basics to get her running good and then you can take steps to make more power

kevinhartman · 06-03-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoolin92GSX

Okay, woah you're reading your AFR backwards, 18:1 is insanely LEAN and very dangerous if that was at WOT/full boost. As for the head, I'd recommend revised lash adjusters (lifters) and quality machine work. There's not much to mod on our heads that benefit a "mostly" stock engine, focus on the basics to get her running good and then you can take steps to make more power

understandable. and the 18 or 17.6 on my afr gauge is only reading that at a idle. i went 2 miles and burned a 1/4 tank. when i say its rich i mean rich. and i have another head with upgraded valves i was told and a reworked cam setup. i dont know what it has or what has been done but going to look at it tomorrow. with the ticking in my head at the moment, would i be about to drop a valve or would it be a lash adjuster going out? its only when i accelerate and then once the motor stablizes the tick goes away? i was told i had a spring break and need to park the car before i drop a valve? and i was asking while i had the whole top of the motor off, any ideas on the wireing or vacume setup, or dress up or anything within the car itself to work on while everything is out? also thanks for all your help so far

Spoolin92GSX · 06-03-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinhartman

understandable. and the 18 or 17.6 on my afr gauge is only reading that at a idle. i went 2 miles and burned a 1/4 tank. when i say its rich i mean rich. and i have another head with upgraded valves i was told and a reworked cam setup. i dont know what it has or what has been done but going to look at it tomorrow. with the ticking in my head at the moment, would i be about to drop a valve or would it be a lash adjuster going out? its only when i accelerate and then once the motor stablizes the tick goes away? i was told i had a spring break and need to park the car before i drop a valve? and i was asking while i had the whole top of the motor off, any ideas on the wireing or vacume setup, or dress up or anything within the car itself to work on while everything is out? also thanks for all your help so far

Okay at idle.. That's still really lean though, at idle/cruise it should be around 14-15:1. That tells me it's a boost leak at the root of this of you're lean at idle and rich under boost.. If there's a broken valve spring I definitely would not even turn the engine until it's fixed - you could float that valve and bend it, and possibly damage that piston as well.

As far as engine bay dress-up, wire tucking, vacuum tuck/elimination, sure! Possibilities there are almost endless from simple cleaning and rerouting to a full wire tuck and bay shave, just a matter of how much you want to do there. My DSM is my daily, so I like having power steering, AC, and all that jazz (cruise control will be disappearing soon though). If you want real inspiration there, look up tsidrift's engine bay *drool*

kevinhartman · 06-04-2012, 02:14 PM

ok as for a update i have a good head and proper valves. planning to rebuild this weekend and engine dress up as well. and redo all intercooler piping. also as for the ecu flashing and tuning, i have been looking up different models and aparently mine isnt one of the ones that will allow a flash. i went to the junkyard and found a 99 turbo with a eprom ecu. dont exactly know if it will work. would like some info on this thing and what it will take to make it work if poss.

thanks in advance for all the help yal have given me

cl1ckclack · 06-04-2012, 03:19 PM

have you checked to make sure your wideband is hooked up correctly???
and as long as it is a black box ecu out of a 98 or 99 turbo eclipse, it can be flashed.

Spoolin92GSX · 06-04-2012, 06:01 PM

^This. 2g turbo ECUs will all work, the only difference is whether it's fwd/AWD and federal/California neither of which will affect performance. Personally EPROM would be my preference since you can tune in real-time with DSMLink and the like. You'll just need to get it socketed and purchase the hardware and you'll be set up to tune!