need help making my 1G racecar faster

[nehring8]

My car is a 91 Laser:

First off, the class that I race in is a naturally aspirated class only and it is a "stock" class so that is my boundary (dirt circle track). I have put together an engine out of "junk yard" parts that runs pretty good (came in 3rd out of 30 running with V6's, and I'm consistantly in the top 5 to 10% in my 4cyl only class). I started with a 2.4 block/pistons/crank out of a 97 galant, pushing the "stock" rule i know, (removed the balance shafts) and put my stock head/intake/throttle body/exhaust on and upgraded to a set of turbo 5 speed cams. I also use a set of 275cc injectors out of a galant. I am running the stock ECU. I run 93 octane pump gas and am getting about 210psi compression across all 4 cylinders.

Am I missing anything that would make more power that can be found easily in a junk yard?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Lol are you racing in the hornet class? I was big into circle track when I lived in Iowa before I moved here in 04'.

 

[nehring8]

I'm actually IMCA Sport Compact "legal" but yeah it's almost the same as hornet just a few more rules. Most all these classes are 4cyl FWD

It is a blast to race, we are actually as fast as hobby stock V8's on some tracks

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Lol. As far as mods you might wanna try bumping compression. I know IMCA is the sanctioning body but from what I remember they hardly ever check compression. Sounds like you got a good setup going already. The first year of the "hornets" a good friend of mine who actually races modifieds now got away with running a 91 GS-T all year. I had a 16g with 550's on that thing and an SAFC tucked under the dash behind the vents. On a 1/2 mile track it took about 4 laps to catch the back of the field to lap them .

 

[1twistdtalon]

GOTTA LOVE THEM HORNETS ... they are real big here is sd. i think the class is pretty strick on the regulations, not sure how you can legaly produce more power.. good luck. one of the funnest classes to watch imo.. just under the big guys

 

[nehring8]

OK, so this weekend I was roaming around the salvage yard and happened to pick up a set if 390CC injectors, how do you guys think they will run in the 4000 to 7500 rpm range without a fuel controller (I know I will need a resistor pack)

 

[nehring8]

OK, some updates on my racing this year. I started off the year very bad with a fuel pump that could not keep up under WOT. After about 3 races changing everything I could think of I finally put a fuel pressure gauge in my car, I went from 8 to 1 in 4 laps and led for about 4 laps and then the car started cutting out again and I was only carrying about 20psi fuel pressure (it was still a fun race because I was kicking some V6 butt) I still managed to get 4th. I put another fuel pump in and did a rewire and raced again on a 1/2 mile track and WON against some very fast ecotecs and neons. I think I will stick in some 390cc injectors and start bumping up my mix of E85 maybe til I get to 100%. One thing about racing you always have the opportunity to try new stuff with your car. I'll try to update again in a couple of months.

 

[ramsack]

Bigger injectors and E85 on a stock 9:1 would be slower. You gotta bump that compression up a bunch and get some cams.

 

[Kolat]

can't believe nobody has discussed timing, could probably pick up a few hp by running a bit more timing if you can without knocking.

T

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

could we make DSMLink work on this car? still appears "factory" although you can probably pick up a bunch of HP....
-Oliver

 

[ineedagsx]

i dont think you can hook up a dsmlink to a non turbo but i base that on absolutely nothing (im sure you can but its not worth it) why dont you look more into your suspension and tires than engine? and just a quick thought you can make your intake look stock but maybe somehow you can put a cool air intake on, cut the rubber and put it around it and stick a cone filter in the airbox and cut off the bottom of it? and hollow out your cat hope that helps

 

[ramsack]

DSMLink would be the proper way to gain more timing, not by advancing the CAS. There ARE non-turbo EEPROM ECUs floating around out there. In theory DSMLink should run on it, but just not have a knock-sensing system.

 

[nuclearr]

If you want to bump compression why not use the 1.8 dohc head or the 1.6 dohc head? you might have to run race gas though.

 

[nehring8]

My compression is already at 210psi or somewhere aroung 11:1 or 11.5:1, the timining is advanced about 5 degrees from base, my guess is that the car is somewhere in the 190 to 200 hp range. I agree with the cams, I know going bigger would help but haven't come up with the money yet. This may be a stupid question but, can you really tell a difference using a K&N filter? I have not got one yet because of the cost. REMEMBER I AM ON A RACE BUDGET

 

[ramsack]

When I compression tested my n/t 4g63 (9:1) it was 215 across the board, so that means nothing. A K&N filter doesn't fall in a race budget, but bigger injectors do?

 

[JayRolla]

My compression is already at 210psi or somewhere aroung 11:1 or 11.5:1, the timining is advanced about 5 degrees from base, my guess is that the car is somewhere in the 190 to 200 hp range. I agree with the cams, I know going bigger would help but haven't come up with the money yet. This may be a stupid question but, can you really tell a difference using a K&N filter? I have not got one yet because of the cost. REMEMBER I AM ON A RACE BUDGET

Running 215 compression is not around 11.1+ compression. Also running larger injectors will just richen up the AFR causing you to have less power. There is no reason to need more fuel. You could probably get a fuel controller and a wb02 so you can lean the car out, not richen. I would add more timing as long as the motor can take it.

There is a guy with a 2g that had or still has the N/T record and he only made 230whp and that was with forged high compression and cammed out as much as he could. No way you are near that power with what you have.

 

[nehring8]

Wow, interesting responses

1) Injectors are within my racing budget because I have a very friendly salvage yard that I get my stuff from. Anyway is the 50 bucks for a K&N really worth it???

2) Running the calculations using my stock 4g64 block/pistons and my 1G 4G63 head do come out to around 11:1 compression (I'm sure that this will get some comments). I thought that the 9:1 stock 4G63's ran in the 150 to 160 PSI range for compression.

3) Are you saying that If I run the 390cc injectors that the stock computer will not be able to control them via the O2 sensor (I do need more fuel for E85)? I tried this in one race and it seemed to work good but at the time I was having fuel pump issues so I took them back out.

 

[Dhan]

@nehring8 I have to ask. What modifications were required to bolt in the 4G64 block? I've never really seen one up close. Are the the engine mounts in roughly the same spots?

And about the K&N filter: I'll always have one on my Mazda 323s, that I flog in the dirtcross cause as you probably know, every little bit helps, especially in racing. I don't think you can actually feel the difference, but the engine might a little.

Sometimes I wonder if its a name brand thing though. Similar to the endless Royal Purple discussions

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

2) Running the calculations using my stock 4g64 block/pistons and my 1G 4G63 head do come out to around 11:1 compression (I'm sure that this will get some comments). I thought that the 9:1 stock 4G63's ran in the 150 to 160 PSI range for compression.

3) Are you saying that If I run the 390cc injectors that the stock computer will not be able to control them via the O2 sensor (I do need more fuel for E85)? I tried this in one race and it seemed to work good but at the time I was having fuel pump issues so I took them back out.

2. Stock 1G turbo compression is 7.8:1, which comes out to about 164psi on a really tight motor. Stock 2G turbo compression is 8.5:1, which comes out to about 185-190 on a really tight motor.

3. The stock computer has NO idea what size injectors you have. It will continue to think you have the stock ones in there, and open/close them as such. If you have 50% larger injectors, you are going to be running 50%, if the car will run at all. If you are running E85 and increasing base timing, figure about 25-30% more fuel (25-30% larger injectors) to compensate and go from there. Anything larger than that and you will be losing a lot of power from running too rich.

 

[nehring8]

KREEZ: to physically bolt a 4G64 block into a 1G the rear motor mount is exactly the same. there will be no holes in the block or transmission for the front mount. I welded my back mount solid and left the front mount out. As for getting the head onto the block that is harder but covered pretty well in these forums.

NOSLW2PTO: on the compression, well first of all I originally had higher compression (225psi), but I changed my cams from advanced 1/2 tooth to retarded 1/2 tooth for higher rpm power range and my static compression dropped about 10 psi (I'm sure dynamic compression increased...), I also did the compression test cold so I would probably be a bit higher yet...
As far as the injectors, I'm still stuck on the question of "won't the ECU use the O2 sensor and adjust the pulse width down until you are back to the correct lean/rich mixture?????" I have already had the 390's in the car for two races and I did not notice anything bad, it actually came out of the corner harder (with less hesitation...)

 

[ramsack]

As far as the injectors, I'm still stuck on the question of "won't the ECU use the O2 sensor and adjust the pulse width down until you are back to the correct lean/rich mixture?????" I have already had the 390's in the car for two races and I did not notice anything bad, it actually came out of the corner harder (with less hesitation...)

Not correctly for almost 2x the amount of fuel. I don't get how it ran. It would be like putting 880s on a stock turbo car with no tuning. As far as running e85 and just putting injectors on, you still have to tune. You won't have the same fueling throughout the duty cycle with different injectors. I don't know about how to get the ecu to like e85 with the o2 trying to correct fuel trims, being as it burns at a different a:f.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I'm sure Steve can answer this better if he sees this thread, but the ECU will TRY to bring the fuel trims back in line, but it can only adjust so much. Once it tries for a certain amt of time, it just gets locked into a certain mode. Wish I could explain better, but in a nutshell, if the injectors are too big, the ECU cannot compensate for them.

 

[ramsack]

I'm sure Steve can answer this better if he sees this thread, but the ECU will TRY to bring the fuel trims back in line, but it can only adjust so much. Once it tries for a certain amt of time, it just gets locked into a certain mode. Wish I could explain better, but in a nutshell, if the injectors are too big, the ECU cannot compensate for them.

Exactly. I have a nasty exhaust manifold leak, so the car is constantly throwing off the fuel trims, making it run like poo. And I DO believe (although all the ECU experts claim what I am saying is wrong) that the fuel trims DO affect open loop, because it affecting how it ran then, too. So I unplugged my o2 and just keep an eye on my fuel pressure. If it runs like crap, I go and look at the fuel pressure and it is usually way off.

 

[90tsiPA]

I don't know if dsmlink or jackal would work on the n/t ecu but that would be your best bet. Find someone to tune it on e85 with those bigger injectors and push the igniton timing to the moon.

 

[ramsack]

Trying to get a non-turbo EEPROM ECU is a challenge. There is the possibility of Megasquirt, that would be the cheapest route. Then you can have a real drivable car if you go all sequential with fuel and ignition, instead of just trying to make balls to the wall power, it will also be responsive.