Rebuild suggestions..500hp goal

[DSMer541]

my engine is now on a stand and im about to tear it down.....curently i was running an Eprom ecu / 3" T.B. ex / rc 550cc / walbro 255 / fuel lab FPR / SAFCII / 16 psi / 650cfm fmic-punishment /and 2g maf w-K&N and hard pipe,....not enough power for me .......im going to do a build and i have a goal of around 500 hp, this is my first build but i will have help.

so i would like to keep this as DD and still be able to take it to the track/ drag , all i really know at the moment is i want to go with a 20g turbo ( if thats possible for 500hp) and i want the engine to look almost stock appering,sleeper,(evoIII ex mani/O2, stock intake mani.) ..was wondering what i should go with as far as rods / pistons , and what kinda compression ratio to run with 20+ psi. ?

the head will be going to a machine shop and i would like to get as much power out of it without any porting.....suggetions on cams? 272 or 280 ? springs /valves ?

i am a noob when it comes to building an engine but i do have some experience and knowlege on termenology and what does what...done a few engine swaps and done lots of external engine work........grew up in a family of drag racers and mechanics,V-8 muscle heads,but they dont know what u guys know about these 4G63s....so i know a little bit......but could deffinetly use some suggestions before i start buyin parts......


can i still hit my 500hp mark with 650cc's and my xtrnl mods or will i need to go bigger as far as tunning, injectors , turbo ? ? any help appreciated

 

[DWR-DSM]

I would go with weiso pistons and manley rods for that hp goal. ACL bearings etc. Eliminate the balance shaft. I would go externally gated. Get rid of that AFC for a dsmlink. Snow water/meth injection. Boost gauge also since the stock one is trash. 3' DP with a full an exhaust system. DNP manifold, o2 housing, jmf race intake.

What about your drivetrain?

How much you willing to spend?

 

[cheap90gsx]

Evo 8/9 valve springs are a cheap set of springs that should work well up to 8,000 rpms.

 

[DSMer541]

i plan on spending whatever it takes to get there...might take a little while.......i have a full 3" down pipe all the way back to a magnaflow muffler, and a autometer boost gauge, ,,,,so get rid of the safc? i just got it

 

[DSMer541]

also is the race intake really necessary? id like to keep it looking somewhat stock on the outside....but if thats what it takes ill do it........but what your sayin is stock manifolds wont cut it? what about the 20g turbo externally gated? can that give me 450-500?

 

[DSMer541]

Evo 8/9 valve springs are a cheap set of springs that should work well up to 8,000 rpms.

im not really lookin for cheap....but if they will hang with the power i have in mind that would be great...... are they strong enough for for a 280 cam? or would i have to stick with 272s?

 

[DougR]

Wow, Ok I will bite on this one.

280 cams are overkill, By a large amount, espcially for a DD. Kel 272's should do ya just fine. Or a set of FP 2X's If you can find them (better DD).
550's will be to small, toss in some 950 blue max's.
Yess DSMlink is in your future. So get used to it Who is doing your tune?
20G? well for stock apearing. It Might get you there on E85, Or the lastest trend Just go straight HX40 with all the trimmings.
The eagle/weisco combo is proven in this power level.
6Bolt head, Just bowl blend and some clean up is all you need to do to the head.
Springs, Well thats your call (how high do you want to rev this build?). Evo's work well. FP, Kiggly, etc all are good insurance!
Intake, leave it alone. Just clean it up (port wise).
ARP Stud Everything, and have it built right.
Look at what guys are saying in EVERY OTHER I want 500 hp thread!
Its more than "bolt it on" and make power, plan your build.

This should be a fun thread!

 

[My1GLaser]

Get DSMLink & 1050s. You will want timing control and the other goodies. Its worth every penny and has been my best mod to date.

Read this before you get a 20g. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html I would look at the 7blade HX-35. I am in the market for one myself.

I am having such good luck with 9:1 CR that I will never build anything lower and I am running 93 pump with 21* peak timing on 9:1 CR at 28 psi on an 18g.

Keep the stock IM, Mike just ran 10.5 and has trapped 138 mph. Search in the "Drag Strip" section for diambo4life's recent thread.

 

[u2slow]

Making 500hp with a 20g is a lofty goal. I would go bigger.

 

[DSMer541]

this is all great info guys, thanx,.............. is it true i can run big injectors with a keydiverchip and keep my safc for now till i can afford dsm link.....id like to focus my money more on engine parts till i get it in then maybe get link when im ready. but i will deffinetly keep it in my plans..

im not sure who is gonna do my tune yet ...i will look into that when i get to that point.....anyone know of any good places in oregon?

so .....block- 9:1 compression , wisco pistons , eagle rods , acl race bearings ,

head- 272 kelfords, evo springs ,revised lifters .....what kinda valves? mm over?iconel or ss?

turbo- HX 35 7 blade ,bolton or non devided mani?, fuel- 950 -1050 cc......will the single 255 walbro still work fine or should i look into maybe a double pump setup?

 

[u2slow]

I wouldn`t go with bigger valves if I wanted 500HP. I would go with a bigger turbo.

 

[DSMer541]

I wouldn`t go with bigger valves if I wanted 500HP. I would go with a bigger turbo.

okay but should i atleast get an aftermarket valve ? not bigger but atleast a ss??

 

[My1GLaser]

this is all great info guys, thanx,.............. is it true i can run big injectors with a keydiverchip and keep my safc for now till i can afford dsm link.

Yes thats true.

But it is going to be tricky tuning the 5500-6000 rpm range on 9:1 CR with no timing control IMO. The stock timing curve calls for 22* at 5.5k and 25* at 6k.

diambo4life has a stock unported head. He does have springs and retainers & cams but the other stuff is slightly overrated. Our heads flow great from the factory. Read this if you are interested. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...1g-head-flow-numbers-intake-designs-long.html

Buying SS valves really depends on the price IMO. You could just get the current head cleaned up and do just fine.

 

[DSMer541]

iv never looked into timming control.....who makes it and were would be the best place to look for one?

 

[Gstclipse69]

Timing control is a feature that dsmlink has. It allows you to adjust ignition timing where it is needed. A safc/chip has no timing control and this will be necessary if you do plan to run 9:1 compression.

 

[Fejery4491]

You'll need something better than a safc. I would say get dsmlink like stated above ^^^

 

[DSMer541]

what if i decide i dont want to run 9:1 compression,incase i decide i want more that 28-30 pound of boost.......if i go with 8:3 compression can i still use stock timing ?

 

[Gstclipse69]

You can use the stock timing maps if you want on either application. What will limit you is knock and how much boost you can run. If your timing is too aggressive, then you will knock and will have to turn the boost down. If you had timing control ie dsmlink then you could retard the timing and add more boost where needed to make more power.
It will be very hard to hit 500 with no timing control.

 

[mtnmike]

I was looking at going with a 500hp rebuild, I checked out short block frankenstein rebuilt with 8:5 to 1 from DSM graveyard. But changed my mind because it was past my budget for the supporting mods and engine life if you want more hp and 1/4 mile times. Have a plan, budget, and research the items and price$$$$$$$$$ Good luck !!

 

[DSMer541]

I was looking at going with a 500hp rebuild, I checked out short block frankenstein rebuilt with 8:5 to 1 from DSM graveyard. But changed my mind because it was past my budget for the supporting mods and engine life if you want more hp and 1/4 mile times. Have a plan, budget, and research the items and price$$$$$$$$$ Good luck !!

ya after doing alot of reserch i think its gonna be a little more than i want to do .....so im just gonna clean stock rebuild in the block and maybe put some cams and springs in the head and clean that up real good......i think im gonna put my money more into the turbo.......
will the holset hx 35 still be a good turbo to go with for that setup? i think it will be.

 

[u2slow]

I think you`re on the right track. More boost pressure is the simple way to more power. Good decision on the head. Good luck!!

 

[91PRdsm]

2G pistons with 1G rods could do it? Im in the same boat. Im looking for 400-500hp and Im thinking on this set-up. Will it hold?

 

[JayRolla]

500whp on OEM internals gets a little scary. I will be doing it soon when I get my hx40 running.

To the OP you will most likely need something with timing control if you want to make good power and be safe. You can always have a chip burned with 2g timing map which is less aggressive and would work great with an safc. A lot cheaper than dsmlink, but ever since I gove v3 link its been the best upgrade I have ever done.

 

[donniekak]

500whp on OEM internals gets a little scary. I will be doing it soon when I get my hx40 running.

To the OP you will most likely need something with timing control if you want to make good power and be safe. You can always have a chip burned with 2g timing map which is less aggressive and would work great with an safc. A lot cheaper than dsmlink, but ever since I gove v3 link its been the best upgrade I have ever done.

Anyone with an eprom ecu can have full timing and fuel control for $50. I bought a willem burner, some proms, and an eraser for about $50, my dsm's have run better than ever since then. The basic tuning can be done with a gui in tuner pro, only non stock functions like studderbox, nlts, and a knock gauge require hex editing.

 

[DWR-DSM]

2G pistons with 1G rods could do it? Im in the same boat. Im looking for 400-500hp and Im thinking on this set-up. Will it hold?

I would just go aftermarket just in case I wanted more later on, plus I would feel better knowing I don't have a stock bottom end.