hx-35 or 60-1??

[tsi tunner]

Hi guys, this question is for the DSM gurus and experienced turbo guys out there, I'm not looking for a random opinion just because people have heard stuff....
Annyways, here it is: I have the supporting fuel and camshafts and intake/exhaust manifold etc...mods to upgrade my garrett gt28rs setup, and I'm looking at some bang for the buck setups out there that can provide my dsm to a 400whp range whithout going into crazy boost, I'd rather keep it under 22 psi...I usually run my gt28 at 20 to 25 psi and have now 320-325 whp
So basically my 2 principal options are the holsets turbos(hx-35 or 40)... and the 60-1 from pte , they both have a good reputation and power range and arent very pricey, but I would like to be very positive before making a purchace, I would likie to know about the spooling range and the durability of those turbos and if I can see some numbers that would be great!..... so here it is thx in advace for the help!

 

[DyNamiC]

There is a wealth of information is the Holset threads:

Holset Turbos Part 6

Holset Results Complete Installed Systems

I myself am putting together a twin scroll t4 hx40 build at the moment.

 

[wancsta]

The hx35 7blade in the bolt on housing is the best performing street turbo I have ever owned hands down. With your goals it would seem to be a nice fit also. Then again these turbo's don't really wake up until 25psi

 

[1timehondalover]

Never again will I waste my money on a PTE turbo. I am just beginning to piece together an HX35 setup and so far I think it will be cost effective and make great power all while being more reliable than the 'ole PTE 50 trim.

I just picked up an HX35 on ebay for less than $200 shipped. Find a 60-1 for that price.

 

[dsm-onster]

The 60-1 is a compressor wheel. And the hx35 is just a frame size. You can't compare the two as turbos, because there's not enough information about either turbo. Which 60-1 are you interested in (which turbine)? Which hx35 (which turbine and compressor)? What are your goals?

 

[tsi tunner]

The 60-1 is a compressor wheel. And the hx35 is just a frame size. You can't compare the two as turbos, because there's not enough information about either turbo. Which 60-1 are you interested in (which turbine)? Which hx35 (which turbine and compressor)? What are your goals?

true, sorry about the lack of info,
Im looking maybe at the 7 blades hx-35, or is the 8 blades better?
and the 60-1 is the T04B 60-1 Trim or the DSM T04B 60-1

here a link with the 4 models on display if it can help you understand the model... im not exaclty sure about the exact infos of the 60-1 models....

DTM Parts - Mitsubishi/DSM

 

[toofast82]

Im looking maybe at the 7 blades hx-35, or is the 8 blades better?

Actually its the opposite, the 8blade hx35 is capable of 52lb/min while the 7blade is cabable of around 60lb/min.
The durability factor alone would gear me towards the Holset.
About 3 years back. I had a motor with no balance shafts and i ran both an hx35 and a pte 60-1/t31 bolton. I had oiled both from the head, put it this way: the hx35 lasted about 3,500miles and the 60-1 lasted 35minutes. Not joking. I'm still trying to figure why both died, because I then ran an 18g for 8k miles with no issues before selling car. Never really got to open up the holset more than 22psi, had alot of internal wastegate issues with the original BEP housing. I really regretted not having external on there. Now I have one on my current dsm, and would never go back to internal!
I would definitely choose the Hx35 7blade over the 60-1

 

[tsi tunner]

Ok ty fore the advice, I didnt know the 7 blade was the better one, but anyways from what I've heard so far the holset seems to be a unanimous decision
I'll probably make my purchace next week or soo, and I'm wondering what kind of power the hx-35 7 blade could provide me at 20 psi....

 

[dsm-onster]

true, sorry about the lack of info,
Im looking maybe at the 7 blades hx-35, or is the 8 blades better?
and the 60-1 is the T04B 60-1 Trim or the DSM T04B 60-1

here a link with the 4 models on display if it can help you understand the model... im not exaclty sure about the exact infos of the 60-1 models....

DTM Parts - Mitsubishi/DSM

There's no information about the difference between the turbos that have the 60-1 compresor either. . . I'd ask which turbine wheel was used. Either it's the t31, too small to net 60-lb/min (the compressors potential) and lags more than the hx35; or the t350 wheel: FAR more laggier than the hx35, but could push more peak flow. The t31 60-1 will probably net about the same results as the bolton hx35 will, but still with more lag than the hx35. So the lag of such a 60-1 isn't worth anything considering the other option you're considering ultimately flows about as much out the turbine and spools faster

If the other 60-1 has the t350 turbine, then you have a turbo that can flow a bit more than the hx35 but will be WAY laggier than the hx35. It's for a different goal than one who wants an hx35. You still havn't mentioned your goal???

 

[1990AWD]

You still havn't mentioned your goal???

I think he had said 400whp without going over 20psi of boost

 

[dsm-onster]

Ah!!! I see that now in his first post. thanx.

He'll need bigger than either turbo to insure that goal. Or a whole lot of other boltons PLUS a stroker kit.

But, crazy boost now-a-days is 30+ psi not over 20psi. . . So under 30 psi? I would run an hx35 in the bolton housing to net 400whp. Faster spool of course for a turbo that will meet your goal. Boost is arbitrary, though. So I wouldn't get too caught up in that number for a goal.

If you wanted 500whp, Id say go for the t350 60-1 and expect over 30psi. Or the t3 bolt pattern 7blade hx35. In your case the bolton 8blade hx35 is fine.

 

[DWR-DSM]

How about using meth/water injection?

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm still trying to understand why he must have such low boost. Unless he's wanting to do this with a weak intercooler. I suggest meth/water injection always with a pumpgas build.

 

[tsi tunner]

Okj thx again to everybody for the great info! I will now clarify the questions!
first, the methanol injection kit is on its way probably at the end of the summer....
second, the reason I'm keeping it low boost right now is because I'm staying with the stock bottom end until next year, so I hope my 6 bolt could be good for 20 psi with the ARP head studs and metal headgasket I have on! And I should get close to my 400 whp goal for this year I am pretty confident, but the stroker kit will comme this winter! hehe

So my goal at long term will still be an alomst daily driven car, soo I dont really consider running an often 30 + psi range annyways and I am looking at the better spooling turbo, and it seem unanimous, the 7 blade hx-35 will perform better for my goal.... the 60-1 turbine options seems more laggy than the holset even tho it could push a bit more flow, then again I'll be satisfied with a 400whp car and I can still push it a little further next year with a stroker kit! soo i'll be close to 500 whp on the strip!

After the turbo, the only thing left to upgrade is goin to be the bottom end! the rest is already been taking care of! Soo there you have if , I hope this can help you guys understand my project better!

 

[JusMX141]

So my goal at long term will still be an alomst daily driven car, soo I dont really consider running an often 30 + psi range anyways....

Why not? It's not like every time you get on the throttle you'll be making 30psi. I'd say four or more of my good friends are running close to 30psi with their daily drivers- one's still on the stock head gasket and 7-bolt low end.

Your engine's durability at 30psi is only as good as the tune you have....and if you're trying to make 400hp at just 20psi, your tune's going to have to be good regardless. Might as well up the boost a little and make your turbo become a little more efficient; it'll make your tune a lot less of a headache.

 

[tsi tunner]

I'm getting dyno tuned right after I put the turbo in, but I understand your point, I might be going a bit higher on boost if needed for my goal... after all I will upgrade the bottom end soon soo I dont see the problem... I havent seen it this way, and I have a question for you, Is their a dsm 7 blade hx-35 bolt on or the only one available is the 8 blades?

And I annyone could help me find a good place to buy the holset turbo that would be great! thx guys!

 

[1990AWD]

And I annyone could help me find a good place to buy the holset turbo that would be great! thx guys!

Holset turbos are found on factory Dodge cummins. the earlier ones had HC-1 turbos, 99-02 had HX-35 I believe and the newer ones had an even larger turbo but I can't remember what its called

 

[Fejery4491]

Personally I'd use a 7 blade hx35 and meth injection. That'll reach your goals and give you some growing room.

 

[donniekak]

A big efficient turbo will have a safer tune at a few more psi and less timing with a richer mixture at the same power. 400hp at 20psi is a ragged edge tune, and may push a stock engine over the edge with the slightest detonation. 400hp at 25psi is a way more conservative tune and will be easier on the internals. Larger turbo's are different than tuning 16g's. Boost doesn't break pistons and rings. Cylinder pressure spikes do.

 

[toofast82]

A big efficient turbo will have a safer tune at a few more psi and less timing with a richer mixture at the same power. 400hp at 20psi is a ragged edge tune, and may push a stock engine over the edge with the slightest detonation. 400hp at 25psi is a way more conservative tune and will be easier on the internals. Larger turbo's are different than tuning 16g's. Boost doesn't break pistons and rings. Cylinder pressure spikes do.

I totally agree
I've always been told that cylinder pressure and timing is what kills the motor a lot and not boost.

 

[tsi tunner]

And wath about the hx-40?? its the same price but I'm asking myself if the spooling time would be horrible since I havent put the stroker kit on and it might take a while to get the money! I want to know if I should get the 40 instead of the 35 for the price.....

 

[dsm-onster]

The hx40 will spool as fast as any 60-1 option you were looking at. So the concern for spool shouldn't be an issue. You were willing to accept the lag of a 60-1

. . . The bolton hx40 spools to 20ish psi by about 4K BTW And flows more than a bolton t31 60-1, which spools about the same. And spools faster than a bolton t350 60-1, which flows about the same as the small 8blade (58mm inducer) hx40.

 

[fastfive0]

HX-40 FTW!!!! although mine is bolted up to a fully built stroker

 

[nice97civic]

i just picked up a garret 60-1 T3 with an .82 a/r housing. i also got a manifold and o2 housing to go with it. any info you guys would like to share with this setup? a 38mm wastegate will be going on, new injectors will be here soon as well as cams/springs/retainers. just looking for daily drivability experience with this setup. same setup made 502awhp on the car it was previously on. i know that doesnt mean much but just thought i'd throw it out there.

 

[JusMX141]

i just picked up a garret 60-1 T3 with an .82 a/r housing. i also got a manifold and o2 housing to go with it. any info you guys would like to share with this setup?

A good buddy of mine ran the same turbo last season- his was a PTE SC6031E in a T3 .82 a/r 4-bolt turbine housing. The turbo began life in a Mitsu bolt-on housing, which was horribly restrictive and couldn't allow the compressor to flow anywhere near it's potential. The end result in the T3 .82 housing was around 58 lb/min of peak airflow, and 457 whp on a 2G AWD. The car felt fast as hell and never stopped pulling.

There were only a couple negative aspects of the setup. One was the T31 turbine was still too restrictive to be mated to a 60-1 compressor....it would've been much happier with a Stage 5 / T350 or a P-Trim turbine. The second was this turbo was horribly unreliable on his car- it blew four times in one season without any rhyme or reason. We tried different oil supply lines, drains, sourced from the filter housing, the head, and it never lasted more than 1000 miles.