Supercharged 4g63

JayRome · 12-12-2008, 04:47 PM

might be a long shot, but has anyone supercharged their 4g63 N/A and have a modded base map for a VR4 Eprom'd ECU (for a supercharger)? running stock 450's and 1g maf?

e85_4g63 · 12-12-2008, 04:59 PM

There are a few supercharged 4g63's around. I don't think anyone has a "base map" per say, but you could probably use a turbo ecu. Although the timing map for a 1g is very aggressive. I'd advice wiring in the knock sensor if you do so. By VR4 I assume you mean the Galant and not the 3KGT / Stealth correct?

*edit* after rereading your post, I have some more to add. Forced induction (supercharged or turbo'd) share the same principals, so in turn, a turbo ecu should handle the blower just fine. What setup do you have? Do you have a logger?

JayRome · 12-12-2008, 05:05 PM

yes sorry, E39A VR4 Galant..

i am running the full VR4 set up minus the turbo... its been doing fine for a while now, just want to pull a little more power out of it, before i drop a completely different engine in this project..

edit: setup
Hi comp N/A (close to 11:1)
eaton M45 from a C200 Komprossor
4-1 tuned length extractors
Vr4 ECU (can be eprom'd)
450cc's
1g Maf

onlything is that the supercharger boosts soo early, the VR4 ecu hasn't been able to compinsate for fuel at lower RPM's.. so i can hear slight pinging which i have adjusted Via an SAFC2, but it can only go so far... and no, i have yet to build a logger for this car, i'm waiting on the carputer for that...

Kastigir · 12-12-2008, 06:22 PM

Outside of how they make boost, both applications are similar. Your normal turbo ECU should be fine, might need minor modifications. I know a guy that has a VW Corrado G60. His SC fried so he went out and got him a comparable turbo. IIRC, it required very little tweaking to run hard.

cheap90gsx · 12-12-2008, 06:34 PM

engine management such as dsmlink shouldn't have a problem tuning with a supercharged application.

e85_4g63 · 12-12-2008, 06:36 PM

Do you have a 1:1 FPR on the car? You could (as a temporary band aid, although I don't recommend it) pull back the base timing a couple degree's.

97 4G63 · 12-12-2008, 06:47 PM

I don't want to jack up this thread but why would anybody want a super charger?? over a turbo
More torque?

Kastigir · 12-12-2008, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 4G63

I don't want to jack up this thread but why would anybody want a super charger?? over a turbo
More torque?

Instant boost?

JayRome · 12-12-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kastigir

Instant boost?

thats correct!

in saying that i get about 4psi from idle and 8psi from 1.8krpm

everyone in australia seems to have a huge turbo attached to a 4g63 (well thats on my cordia anyway)... so i thought why the hell not, build a supercharged hi comp 4g63...

works pritty well actually, and considering my car is set up for cornering, you dont really have to rev out the engine to get power.. in saying that i get 11lt/100km fuel economy with start stop city everyday driving.. so no complaints.

i have an Malpassi FPR currently set to 48PSI under load, i am also maxed out on neg timing on the CAS. its all holding up pritty well soo far and its been a few months now..

it was Dyno'd when i first built it, but the old ECU didnt like the boost and tiny injectors so it ping'd off its nut.. although in saying that i did get a safe 57kw at 38% throttle.. with the VR4 stuff in i havent had time to get it tuned and dyno'd once again...

i will have more look into the DSM link, was also thinking of shoving a 6G72TT in the project but i want to see how much a supercharged N/A will make before it blows lol...

cheap90gsx · 12-13-2008, 03:22 AM

6g72tt would be savage.

xreaction122 · 12-13-2008, 03:25 AM

wow. S/C'd 4g63 is deff. something different

you need to take a video of this

JayRome · 12-13-2008, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xreaction122

wow. S/C'd 4g63 is deff. something different

you need to take a video of this

speaking of that....
when it was N/A
YouTube - Galant GSR Hyper N/A

then N/A with 280 cams
YouTube - Galant GSR new exhaust stage 3 cam

initial installation, first start with supercharger..
YouTube - Supercharged Galant GSR (better camera)

when it was on the dyno.. kinda boring but the sound of the S/C is louder then my exhaust...
YouTube - Supercharged 4G63 Dyno'd

i was honestly half way to making quad throttles before the S/C poped up on ebay..

Kastigir · 12-13-2008, 08:52 AM

Can't say I like that idle with 280 cams. Good I learn these things before buying my cams. Is that a Jackson Racing SC?

e85_4g63 · 12-13-2008, 09:18 AM

Supercharger is off a Mercedes Benz. 280's don't idle like that, the video quality isn't the best.

Kastigir · 12-13-2008, 09:49 AM

Well, I still don't want a pushrod V8 idle. Think I'll stick with 264/272 setup. I guess all positive displacement SCs look the same.

ed_dogg23 · 12-13-2008, 10:19 AM

Dude that is freakin sweeeet! Though i love my turbo, that sound of your ride is sick. Thanks for posting this!

Kastigir · 12-13-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbogst98

272 lope man

Yes, but not as bad as 280s. I'd love to hear some 272s and 264s. I guess a YouTube search is in my very near future. That car sounded like it was going to die every revolution. I'd rather not have it sounding like that. I've heard Honda B-series engines with the TODA VTEC killers...it too sounded like ass. IMO, small engines don't sound right with huge cams.
this
Now this sounds much better than that 280 clip. Ok, found another with the exact setup I was planning on running.
YouTube - HKS 264/272 cams at idle
After browsing some more YouTube clips, the 280s don't sound as bad as this Galant. Maybe being N/A has something to do with it?

tunethis · 12-13-2008, 12:02 PM

That Galant is nice. I see you got fabricating skills. I'd like to see what kind of power you make once it's tuned perfectly.

JayRome · 12-13-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e85_4g63

Supercharger is off a Mercedes Benz. 280's don't idle like that, the video quality isn't the best.

yer sorry guys its the only way of explaining the cams, they are HKS 272 regrinds with extra lift..... way too much (well built for high RPM).... and yes thats how it sounds like in person... these cams were in an EVO1 and never sounded like this either.... and the Idle speed is at 1.1k RPM with 4-1 long extractors.. i'm currently the only one i know of in Aus that was running that set up so, not really anyone to compare with...

but its now got VR4 cams in it, but will be upgrading back to the 272/280's (what ever the hell they are, probably in between) soon after the tune...

basicly it was a N/A 4g63..
balanced stock internals
racing piston rings etc
crank scraper
no balancers
stock H/G
ARP studs all round
head shaved to max point
ported and polished intake side
port matched 4-1 long extractors
extended oil sump (1lt)
and a few other things i cant remember...

i havent found a 4G that sounds like mine yet...

edit:
this is what the car looks like..

GPTourer · 12-13-2008, 01:03 PM

Okay, wait. Did you say you are running 11:1 compression with the SC? Could that not be your problem right there? Shouldn't you drop down to something more manageable like 9.0:1 or less to stop the detonation?

delta448 · 12-13-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRome

so i thought why the hell not, build a supercharged hi comp 4g63...

Quote:

i have an Malpassi FPR currently set to 48PSI under load, i am also maxed out on neg timing on the CAS.

I think the stock ignition timing is definitely the issue for you. The high compression plus instant boost is probably pushing off the top of the map at idle and low rpms where the ECU is targeting an aggressive timing curve. Especially if you punch the throttle quickly. Adding airflow/fuel with the SAFC might help bring the timing back down a little but I think you really need a standalone (or DSMLink) and a dyno tune for as much of a change in parameters as you're getting into.

Quote:

i will have more look into the DSM link, was also thinking of shoving a 6G72TT in the project but i want to see how much a supercharged N/A will make before it blows lol...

You might want to get in touch with RayPeters. He has done the supercharger (but he fed it with output from an 18G for a twincharged setup) and he's also done the 6G72tt in a DSM swap. It's strangely similar the way you two think.

His first twincharged setup here, and version 2 here.

JayRome · 12-14-2008, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPTourer

Okay, wait. Did you say you are running 11:1 compression with the SC? Could that not be your problem right there? Shouldn't you drop down to something more manageable like 9.0:1 or less to stop the detonation?

now thats no fun.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta448

I think the stock ignition timing is definitely the issue for you. The high compression plus instant boost is probably pushing off the top of the map at idle and low rpms where the ECU is targeting an aggressive timing curve. Especially if you punch the throttle quickly. Adding airflow/fuel with the SAFC might help bring the timing back down a little but I think you really need a standalone (or DSMLink) and a dyno tune for as much of a change in parameters as you're getting into.

You might want to get in touch with RayPeters. He has done the supercharger (but he fed it with output from an 18G for a twincharged setup) and he's also done the 6G72tt in a DSM swap. It's strangely similar the way you two think.

His first twincharged setup here, and version 2 here.

correct on the first part.... but its currently the only ECU that will run it.. and with good fuel economy too... really suprising though that is doesnt ping as much as it really should... around 10-15% throttle at very light load it pings but back off or step on the gass it goes away... so it should only be a little bit of tweeking here and there....

yes the timing is MAXED out on negative so cant go any further.. but when put back to normal, it freakin PULLS! but pings more too and not safe....

i was looking into a Microtech LT8 or 10, i'm just waiting for someone to sell there 2nd hand one..

i'l get the ECU ready for the Eprom and then take it from there...

speaking of the TwinCharge... that was already on the cards while i was building the S/C kit... i built a Turbo kit at the same time using a EVO7 RS Titainium Wheel Turbo but it ended up on my Cordia project...

i'm starting to sway to the 6g72 cause it will just scare the shizen out of everyone... sounds like fun to..

thanks for everyones input!

JayRome · 04-30-2009, 07:17 PM

old thread but....

warning to all putting Superchargers onto 4g63's....

clip the RPM red line to around 7.5rpm.... or get a bigger s/c

8Krpm and above + Eaton M45 supercharger = dead supercharger lol....

i found out the expensive way.....