clutch problem?

[Big Doyle]

alright i cant post in the other threads so im going to do it here....

alright i bought a 1996 talon ts1 fwd and the guy said that the clutch was brand new, well on the way home it started slipping so i was like gah that guy lied to me. 3 weeks later the car wouldnt move, the pedal would go all the way to the floor and not return, the pedal always had to go to the floor for me to shift. well pulled the car to the shop and ordered a new clutch and they took the other one out and that guy wasnt lieing...the clutch was brand new and it was the same one i ordered....well the clutch goes all the way to floor and wont return....i need some help as to what this is...i met a fellow dsmtuner yesterday at advanced auto and he said something about the rod not being long enough with a aftermarket clutch...is this ture? need feed back asap....car has to be on road agian for a trip in 2 days

 

[da_reeseboy]

I can't think of a reason off the top of my head for both a slipping clutch AND not disengaging/pedal dropping to the floor. Start checking some of the basics - fluid level, bleed the system.
What clutch is it?

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

When the clutch pedal goes to the floor and does not return, this is usually a loss in pressure in the hydraulic system. First thing to do is inspect the master and slave cylinder as well as the clutch line for leaks. Try bleeding the system, if this still does not work, then get back to us. You should not NEED an extended slave cylinder rod, it's a quick fix sometimes for cars with heavier pressure plates, but not absolutely necessary.

 

[dlb21]

It has been proven that the extended rod will definatly improve having to press the clutch through the floor. What you can do it adjust the clutch master cylinder under the dash to get a little more out of the clutch. Also I ended up having to replace all my mounts on mine because it wouldnt shift properly because the trans was actually moving away as the rod was exteded. Also what is the condition on the master/slave cylinder, the lines could be bleed as well.

 

[TOONAH]

This is the kind of story that hurts.
The extended rod will have nothing to do with the pedal not returning.
If the hydraulic system checks out, try the following.
Eyeball the fork while a buddy pushes the clutch in.
Does the fork activate?
Forks can bend. That is a known issue on the F5M22 and F5M22 Mitsubishi transmission. I suspect the extended slave cylinder rod compensates for a bent fork.
If it gets bent enough, the throwout bearing will not push the pressure plate finger springs in enough to disengage the friction disk. Since the springs are no longer pushing back against the throwout bearing, the slave cylinder rod will not be driven in and there will be no return pressure to push the clutch pedal back up.
Thats what I'd be looking for. Good luck man.

 

[Big Doyle]

alright went down to the shop...and looked at the clutch and it wasnt really even getting any contact....the clutch still had the writing on it....so...im stumpd...and so are the mechanics....

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

Well now it sounds like you need to check to make sure the fork is not bent or worn. If it is, replace it. Check the condition of the TOB as well.

Clarify on the clutch not getting contact. It had to have been, as you drove it around for a while. A little more detail and we can try to better identify the problem

 

[dlb21]

I guess I didnt read the part about the pedal staying to the floor. Anyways you definatly need to start by bleeding the line if there is air int here then the pedal will not return aslo if there is failure in the master or slave.

 

[Big Doyle]

the clutch was getting contact in some spots....some writing is gone but some of it is still there....mechanic took some pics and sent them to maperformace to see if they could help out a bit...since the clutch that was in it was a 2.1....

 

[da_reeseboy]

This isn't an issue with crankwalk, right?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

This isn't an issue with crankwalk, right?

No. No reason to beat around the bush sending pics to MAPerformance. You need to replace either the master or slave cylinder. Check to see if the master cylinder is leaking fluid down the inside or outside of the firewall. If not check to see if the slave cylinder is leaking fluid out of the boot. Either way if one is bad both should be replaced.

 

[da_reeseboy]

No. No reason to beat around the bush sending pics to MAPerformance. You need to replace either the master or slave cylinder. Check to see if the master cylinder is leaking fluid down the inside or outside of the firewall. If not check to see if the slave cylinder is leaking fluid out of the boot. Either way if one is bad both should be replaced.

Ok. I figured it wouldn't be (haven't experienced it personally). I'm just trying to figure out why he would have nothing pushing the clutch back up AND a slipping clutch.

OP - it seems unanimous that the clutch dropping to the floor is going to be a leak or air in the hydraulic system or perhaps a bent clutch fork.
As far as the clutch slipping and still looking practically new goes - how do the springs look on the pressure plate? Is the flywheel out-of-spec? If the flywheel contact surface is a seperate piece from the flywheel (like a fidanza aluminum is), are the screws holding the contact surface to the flywheel all snapped or otherwise jacked up?

 

[TOONAH]

Hey Big Doyle.
Examine the throw out bearing. Examine the splines on the input shaft and be sure that the friction disk can slide back and forth about and inch. One should use a small amount of high temp grease on the splines. Not enought to gob off though. If you read my previous post, about the mechanics of the clutch, you will understand why the throwout bearing is critical. It is not residual pressure in the hydraulic system that pushes the pedal back up.
The fluid must be pushed back by the slave cylinder rod/piston. That can only happen if there is mechanical force applied to the rod. Ergo the finger springs on the pressure plate.
Your clutch apparently was not fully engaging or disengaging though.
It is either a hydraulic issue or a mechanical one. IE: Too much play in the system, possibly the wrong pressure plate, bent fork, bad TO bearing, bad slave and or master cylinder. The clutch is a simple mechanical/hydraulic system. Just want to help a fellow
Irishman!!

 

[Big Doyle]

one of the finger springs was bent, got a different kit, Maperformance said that everything looks good but the fork....so sending them a few pics of the fork with measurements and stuff...hoping this is the problem...

 

[dropt4]

I had the same thing happen to my GST.. Ended up being the fork in the end.. Good luck man

 

[Big Doyle]

alright....they thought they fixed the problem....but heres what its doing now....alright you have to push the clutch all the way to the floor to get it into gear..and if you let out about a inch off the pedal its fully engaged already....my dad says the clutch fork is hyper extending...so would a larger throwout barring fix this?....and also....my boost gauge doesnt work after they fixed the clutch and the car cuts out and acts like it isnt getting enough fuel when im driving, and the car smokes black when i rev it up and shift...but not when im driving....untill i shift....input would be nice....

thanks
Doyle

 

[dlb21]

That is what the extended slave rod is for...so that you dont have to compleetly push the pedal to the floor for the clutch to disengage. This is a mod that most people do when upgrading the clutch. As far as the other issue it sounds like mabey a vacuum line may not have been reconnected or mabey even a sensor. good luck!!!!

 

[Big Doyle]

still looking for helpfull information...

 

[delta448]

alright....they thought they fixed the problem....but heres what its doing now....alright you have to push the clutch all the way to the floor to get it into gear..and if you let out about a inch off the pedal its fully engaged already....my dad says the clutch fork is hyper extending...so would a larger throwout barring fix this?....and also....my boost gauge doesnt work after they fixed the clutch and the car cuts out and acts like it isnt getting enough fuel when im driving, and the car smokes black when i rev it up and shift...but not when im driving....untill i shift....input would be nice....

thanks
Doyle

You need to adjust the clutch pedal rod that goes through the firewall to the master cylinder. The rod is threaded and you need to loosen the lock nut and thread it towards the master cylinder a couple of turns. Just make sure that the pedal has some "free play" at the top of its travel in order to uncover the relief valve in the master cylinder, or else you'll get the dreaded 2G pedal pump up. Road Race Engineering has a good write up about it (near the bottom of the page, under clutch adjustment/2G pedal "pump up"). The rod is a PITA to get to, up under the dash standing on your head with only enough room for one arm at a time.

For the second problem, you need to perform a boost leak test.