dsm graveyard's Frankenstein shortblock?

[mgsx98]

Hey i'm new to the DSM Graveyard so i have some questions..

First of all i was looking and saw the Custom Build Frankenstein, i have been saving up some money to get a 6 bolt but this looked pretty good. it even has warranty.

so my question.

is it worth it? has any of you done this?

should i go with this or just stick to the 6 bolt?

any comments would be appreciated.

heres a link to it.

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for Used DSM Parts!

 

[interex]

In my opinion that is a little high for the little amount of work done.

 

[GSX93DSM]

Go with a six bolt if you look you can fine one resonable and buy rods and pistons for the same price or cheaper than the frank. Another route buy a six bolt rebuild it stock buy upgrades. Theres no way im paying $1000 for a 7 bolt when I can build a six bolt with 2g pistons for cheaper and have a better block.

 

[95redturboawd]

Definitely go with the six bolt. It's all-around a better motor.

 

[1991TSiGFORCE]

I say stick with the 6 bolt. 6 bolt has more potential.

 

[MadScientist92]

6 bolt ftmfw

 

[teamdsm95]

definitely buy a 6 bolt and spend the difference on parts and it could be better than that frankenstein.

 

[DSMGraveyardinc]

Hey, how are ya guys,

6 Bolt Turbo is defiantly a better platform, especially with 2g pistons. Here is the Frankenstein 6 Bolt Turbo, the best of all worlds.

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for Used DSM Parts!

Hope this helps, Feel free to call us if you have any questions, or want your build a specific way, Thanks!!

Jon Walker
DSM Graveyard Inc.

269-226-4G63

 

[interex]

So I'd like to hear why everyone keeps saying "GO WITH 6 BOLT IT'S BETTER" ... If the 6 bolt was so much better everyone would use them. I think people need to quit going on and on with this misleading info about the 6 bolt being so much better than the 7 bolt. Do some research.

 

[crimsondragon]

The fact that 6 bolts have ran up to 600hp on stock internals seems to pass over you eh? Or the lack of crankwalk? Of course 7 bolts do have their advantages but they do not compare to the 6 bolt. However, if you mix both, you get the best of both worlds. Throw some 2g pistons in a 1g block on 1g rods, top it off with a 2g head, and call it a day.

 

[interex]

Oh wait a second. You just said the 6 bolt has a LACK of CRANKWALK. That is impossible as ALL engines are subject to crankwalk. It is NOT a 2G or 7 bolt thing. It just happens. And I do believe Mitsu claimed that less than 10% of ALL 7 bolt 4G engines suffered from Crankwalk. I just dont see why people go around saying this b/s about the 7 bolt engine. I've read 1000's of threads and I think I've found 1 or 2 people who actually suffered from crankwalk issues. I've seen 100's of people who have blown engines but had nothing to do with the thrust bearing. And if you're going to 'build' an engine it doesnt matter what the stock parts can handle. People need to get off this kick that the 6 bolt is so much more superior than the 7 bolt. ALL ENGINES _can_ suffer from thrust bearing failure.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Oh wait a second. You just said the 6 bolt has a LACK of CRANKWALK. That is impossible as ALL engines are subject to crankwalk. It is NOT a 2G or 7 bolt thing. It just happens. And I do believe Mitsu claimed that less than 10% of ALL 7 bolt 4G engines suffered from Crankwalk. I just dont see why people go around saying this b/s about the 7 bolt engine. I've read 1000's of threads and I think I've found 1 or 2 people who actually suffered from crankwalk issues. I've seen 100's of people who have blown engines but had nothing to do with the thrust bearing. And if you're going to 'build' an engine it doesnt matter what the stock parts can handle. People need to get off this kick that the 6 bolt is so much more superior than the 7 bolt. ALL ENGINES _can_ suffer from thrust bearing failure.

w00t! ^^^^

I agree with your position. 6 bolts are a good bet to avoid crankwalk, but if you want a better engine/head look into a 7 bolt.
Besides, half of us already have a 7 bolt.

My own position is that a 6 bolt is a fine way to go. But theres also nothing wrong with building a 7 bolt.

 

[dsm-onster]

Less than 1% chance of crank walk or 9.9% chance. Considering crankwalk practically renders a shortblock useless, you chose. I don't believe any one is actually discussing 7 bolt with forged internals, or "built".

Yes, these guys say the 6 bolt is better. But by far the majority of these people say the 6 bolt is better because of reasons other than crankwalk.

Below is the research results since, yes, some won't do it:

Primarily, the rods are quite stronger. The 7 bolt rods have bent at power levels at which 6 bolt blocks have been daily driven. Also, the headbolts are 1mm wider. MUCH stronger and less prone to allowing a head to lift (blow head gasket). Many, including myself have run very high cylinder pressures on stock headbolts at a level that have stretched 7bolt headbolts. Add these to less than 1/10 of the chance of crankwalk occurance.

Other benefits vs. a 2g 7 bolt (when you get a 6bolt longblock you get these). Larger throttlebody and accomodating intake manifold. Option to run the n/t throttle body which is as wide as the 1g tb but does away with the restrictive TB elbow. 6 bolt arp head studs are stronger than 7 bolt arp headstuds. Adjustable base timing (a cas usually comes with a long block). Higher lift cams.

The 6bolt can tolerate over 500whp. If you have a 7 bolt and your goal is 495whp, then a "built" block is in order. How much do these built internals cost vs. a whole 6 bolt block? Again add the small chance of crank walk failure. And the need for headbolts as strong as 6bolt headbolts. Yes, you can fit 6bolt rods into a 7bolt engine, but a whole swap of the shortblock is nearly the same cost and time. And is it a 2g block anymore? Don't forget having to upgrade the headbolts.

There is zero, nada, no proof at all that 2g heads are better than 1g heads. In fact, you'll be downgrading for sure if you use the 2g cams in the 2g head.



Crankwalk was brought up by only one poster one time. Everyone else stated it was just a better block. Why is it not?

 

[crimsondragon]

Oh wait a second. You just said the 6 bolt has a LACK of CRANKWALK. That is impossible as ALL engines are subject to crankwalk. It is NOT a 2G or 7 bolt thing. It just happens. And I do believe Mitsu claimed that less than 10% of ALL 7 bolt 4G engines suffered from Crankwalk. I just dont see why people go around saying this b/s about the 7 bolt engine. I've read 1000's of threads and I think I've found 1 or 2 people who actually suffered from crankwalk issues. I've seen 100's of people who have blown engines but had nothing to do with the thrust bearing. And if you're going to 'build' an engine it doesnt matter what the stock parts can handle. People need to get off this kick that the 6 bolt is so much more superior than the 7 bolt. ALL ENGINES _can_ suffer from thrust bearing failure.

I have yet to hear a 6 bolt getting crankwalk. Maybe they just keep it on the down low then. If my goal for a block is 300hp and it can take 600hp, does this mean I have to get forged internals? Course not. People blow engines cause they take the block too far. A stock 6 bolt will give you a better margin for error in comparison to the 7 bolt.

 

[Bcoy]

I think this thread is getting a little off topic.

However, if you mix both, you get the best of both worlds. Throw some 2g pistons in a 1g block on 1g rods, top it off with a 2g head, and call it a day.

+1 Why not get the best of both worlds? It's not a bad price for what is being done in my opinion.

 

[dsm-onster]

I don't think this thread is getting off topic. After all, mgsx98 asked: "should i go with this or just stick to the 6 bolt? any comments would be appreciated."

I have never seen or heard of a 6 bolt with crankwalk. That doesn't mean that there is no chance. If you want to insure no crankwalk then you'll have to run an automatic transmission 6 bolt or 7 bolt. But the small chance of crankwalk is worthy of note especially sense the op asked for any comments on choosing a 7 bol block vs. choosing a 6 bolt. Its not a matter of opinion that the 7bolt blocks are about 10 times more likely to crankwalk during its service life.

9% of all 7 bolts may crankwalk. BUT, the real advantage to him 'sticking to the 6 bolt' is the stronger headbolts and rods. Afterall the 6bolt is the same price at dsmgraveyard right now!

 

[GreenGSX]

My 6-bolt motor crank walked. Keep in mind that this is after 60K miles of beating the snot out of it every chance I got so I am not worried about it a bit. $65 in main bearings and she's good to go again.

My advice would be to use a 6 bolt short block and use a 2g head. Its really simple to just drill out the 2G head to accept the 1mm larger head studs and unless you're going for 600hp I think the smaller port size makes for a better street motor over the 1G head. That way you won't have to mess around with intake and CAS changes. Figuring out the motor mounts is going to be enough work as it is.

 

[DSMGraveyardinc]

When deciding on which short block to used, what we usually would ask you first is what are your plans?

What are your realistic HP Goals? Do you need higher 8.5 compression ratio that the 2G Piston will offer, or do you want to go down to the 7.8 on the 1G.

What we offer here is 2 different Frankenstein Short Blocks. One is the 95-99 7 Bolt Block and the other is the 90-92 6 Bolt Block. We also offer stock rebuilds, including the 6 Bolt Turbo, and the 2g 7 Bolt Turbo ( Non Frankenstein Conversion)

Both Frankensteins have 1G Big Rods, and 2G Pistons. That is what we call the Frankenstein conversion. People have been doing it for years, and it has been proven to be a nice way to go. Also, from what we understand, the mid # Evo's, like the 3-5 had a very similar setup, using a 8.5 compression piston, with a similar rod. Both piston and rod part #s for those Evo's are different that our 1G Rod, and 2G piston part #'s, and they are not available at your local dealer. That is why we have to bore out the 1G rods to fit the 2G Piston. At least that is how we have interpreted it this way.

So, next what we would ask, is if you want to use your 2G Block or find a 6 Bolt block to start the project. To keep cost down, we could use your existing block, ( 7 Bolt). Or if you want to eliminate that crank walk possibility, we could start with a 6 Bolt. We usually have those here, and that could save some on shipping, but would add to the overall cost of the build, since the price is based off of a core block, crank, and piston/rod.

Basically it depends on what your budget is, and what you are going to do. Hopefully this helps clear up some confusion, Feel free to call us at 269-226-4g63 if you have any questions, Thanks!

Jon Walker
DSM Graveyard Inc.

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for Used DSM Parts!

 

[Bcoy]

Awesome explanation. I will for sure be taking this route in the future when my stock 6bolt kicks the bucket. Thanks Jon

 

[turboglenn]

A 6 bolt can crank walk as well, all motors can, it's just that 7 bolt 2g motors are more notorious for it ( and i think more cases are urban legend than real crank walk)

The headstuds are a good point raised by DSM-onster.

The main thing I personally like better about a 6 bolt over a 2g 7 bolt is that you can just walk into the parts store and ask for a set of main and rod bearings for a 6 bolt. Go home put them in adn go play in just a few short hours.

On a 2g 7 bolt (manufactured in america) all the main journals are a different size and so are the machined opeings they sit in. So you have to remove teh cap and bearing, then read a code off the block for that journal, then measure the crank and read the chart to determine what bearing to buy. Then you have to keep track of what bearing goes in what journal or you'll be measuring again.

I'd much rather have them all be the same for simplicity. Some people have theorized that this "over engineering" of them trying to get clearances so perfect by making the journals all sized to themselves is part of or one of the causes of crankwalk. ( i have no proof or opinion on that either way, just something i've heard talked about )

Plus the benefit of when doing a budget build you have decently stronger rods if you shoose to keep the stock ones. And for the begining tuner, the lower compression ratio is a little more forgiving to people getting agressive with the boost & timing

 

[99gst_racer]

The main thing I personally like better about a 6 bolt over a 2g 7 bolt is that you can just walk into the parts store and ask for a set of main and rod bearings for a 6 bolt. Go home put them in adn go play in just a few short hours.

On a 2g 7 bolt (manufactured in america) all the main journals are a different size and so are the machined opeings they sit in. So you have to remove teh cap and bearing, then read a code off the block for that journal, then measure the crank and read the chart to determine what bearing to buy. Then you have to keep track of what bearing goes in what journal or you'll be measuring again.

This is only for OEM bearings. For the 7-bolt, the aftermarket bearings are just as easy to order as the 6-bolt bearings. None of that S1,2,3 crap. Just the standard size and oversizes.

 

[mgsx98]

I'm really not planning on making big numbers right now. 300-350 hp would be really nice.

i do have a tight budget, since I'm still in High School and only have a part time job. so i think the 7bolt would work to my advantage.

i still have some questions though.

would a 7bolt still crankwalk after the rebuild?
the car has over 170k on it and hasnt cw

 

[dsm-onster]

The 7bolt you're interested in is the same price as a 6bolt for sale from the same people. . .

 

[gorf]

When deciding on which short block to used, what we usually would ask you first is what are your plans?

What are your realistic HP Goals? Do you need higher 8.5 compression ratio that the 2G Piston will offer, or do you want to go down to the 7.8 on the 1G.

What we offer here is 2 different Frankenstein Short Blocks. One is the 95-99 7 Bolt Block and the other is the 90-92 6 Bolt Block. We also offer stock rebuilds, including the 6 Bolt Turbo, and the 2g 7 Bolt Turbo ( Non Frankenstein Conversion)

Both Frankensteins have 1G Big Rods, and 2G Pistons.
Basically it depends on what your budget is, and what you are going to do. Hopefully this helps clear up some confusion, Feel free to call us at 269-226-4g63 if you have any questions, Thanks!

Jon Walker
DSM Graveyard Inc.

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for Used DSM Parts!

There is company on Ebay selling a drop-in six bolt log block for 2g - do you do the same sort of conversion?

from the description:
Oil pump has been modified to fit on the 6 bolt block. This allows you to run all your stock sensors, no cutting of wires, direct bolt in. You would not have to worry about any mifire issues, when the 6 bolt is installed into a 2G. The engine also has the balance shafts eliminated. Comes with the 2G motormount installed on the engine, since there is some customizing that needed to be done. All you would have to do is bolt you head and all accessories and your ready to go.

 

[10fold]

There is company on Ebay selling a drop-in six bolt log block for 2g - do you do the same sort of conversion?

from the description:
Oil pump has been modified to fit on the 6 bolt block. This allows you to run all your stock sensors, no cutting of wires, direct bolt in. You would not have to worry about any mifire issues, when the 6 bolt is installed into a 2G. The engine also has the balance shafts eliminated. Comes with the 2G motormount installed on the engine, since there is some customizing that needed to be done. All you would have to do is bolt you head and all accessories and your ready to go.

sorry to bring up an old thread but I was wondering where exactly you found these "drop in" 6 bolts? I've been looking for something like this for a while to avoid the random misfire and the hassle of cutting and splicing wires and the only thing I've found is the motor from karking...but thats over 2 grand, which is WAY to much for a stock longblock. Are these motors in decent condition and could you post a link?