95-99 GSX or 93-95 MR2?

[Digitronical]

Hi guys, I have been looking at purchasing a new car. I have a 97 GST spyder with your basic bolt ons to the stock t25 and motor. I was convinced my next car was going to be a gsx, until my brother convinced me to look into the 93-95 MR2 Turbo. He mentioned it was the cheapest way to go quick and have ferrari like handling ability's.

I am more open minded than just quartermile racing, but autox and tracking abilitys, ontop of being able to put down a respectable quartermile time.

When he started going down the list of things the MR2 comes stock with for its cost, I started to become convinced that the GSX might not be the next car for me, keeping in mind that I am a budget minded tuner here.

He mentioned that the MR2 could outbrake a 2000 Ferrari 360 Modena, back in 1993, with 60-0 in 107ft, as well as getting the same skidpad results as a Ferrari F40 (.94g). With numbers like those on the stock brakes and stock pizza cutter 15" rims it comes with, I am convinced that there is much more room for improvement despite its amazing numbers it puts down already. He says that with the mid engined placement and its rearward weight bias, it gets much better weight distribution under braking and acceleration than front engined cars do, and its already lighter than a gsx with his weighing in at 2700lbs on an 18wheeler scale.

He has a JDM gen 3 3sgte, which ran a 13.3 in stock form, and an additional $250 in bolt ons to it and bald street tires, it ran a [email protected] and was told he wasnt getting very hard on it at the start due to its subpar 1.99 60ft. He says drag radials would of helped out a lot.

I like the fact that it doesnt have an interference engine, so if the timing belt breaks, I am only a timing belt away from getting it back on the road. It also comes stock with a metal headgasket, 540cc injectors, an iron block/aluminum head, stock oil catchcan, stock LSD transmission and some even came stock with widebodys and 500hp from the factory.

I think thats the thing that makes it a difficult decision, is that the MR2 already comes stock with so many upgrades over a GSX and is classed with AWD cars in drag racing over in Japan, due to its superior weight distribution MidRear setup, gets better gasmileage, and the 3sgte has won more JGTC's than the 4g63, and if your lucky enuff to find a TRD2000gt, you can get 2425lb, 493hp stock widebody, all %100 stock.

Now the GSX that I had been considering for uyears b4 I considered the MR2, doesnt come with a non-inteference engine, so if the t-belt breaks, Im screwed til I can save up enuff for a rebuilt head. I dont like how it comes with 450cc injectors, no oil catchcan, and a headgasket that isnt metal.


340whp on stock fuel system seems to be par for these gen 3 3sgte MR2's with mild bolt ons and a 50trim, I am afraid it might cost me a lot more to get a GSX to put down those kinds of numbers and outhandle or outbrake an MR2. My brother claims that the Mr2 will give me better handling/braking/fuel milage, better build quality, cheap to mod considering I can get a 50trim kit for a MR2 off ebay for $700.

Asa budget minded tuner, what car do you think I shud get since I want to tie or beat my brothers MR2 while spending as little as possible. Can I put down 340whp w/ a gsx AND run an 11.9? He did it all for $1500 and I wud like to do the same.

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^Pic of said car, I want to be fast enuff to pull of a plate similar to this one.

 

[MountainDew]

GSX will be MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper to mod and a lot easier to work on.

I'd go with the GSX unless you have some pretty big pockets. MR2s are badass, but that GSX will always get to pull it out of the hole.

 

[Digitronical]

Im afraid with his Midengined placement is going to hang VERRY close to a gsx off the launch now that he boguht FD RX7 wheels w/BFGforce drag radials (not in pic), 7k dumps and not even a *skert*, and surely pass me uptop since I have more drivetrain weight and friction patch from pushing 4tires instead of 2. His car weighs about 600lbs lighter and since its midengined and not awd, it has less drivetrain weight.

Hes a got a seemingly legitimate excuse for everything.

He also mentioned that due to having much more tire friction patch/drivetrain weight, the MR2 is also better from a roll as well. So while hes hanging in 1st, and passing in 2nd/3rd/4th. I tried to tell him that the 4g63 has a better flowing head and makes higher hp numbers with less boost than a mostly stock 3sgte, which doesnt seem to matter since its 600lbs heavier and has the same displacement.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

Make one pull from a dig with your brother and his mr2 in any weather other then sunshine in a gsx... Then you'll know why you wanted a gsx from the get go. Not to discredit your brother, but 340whp for $1500 starting with a bone stock car is something I've never seen done. By the way the 93 to 95 MR2's have an LSD which helps a lot.

 

[MountainDew]

But with a stutterbox and heavy clutch, AWD is amazing off the line.

Personally I'd just go with the GSX because it is easier and cheaper to work on and mod. MR2 would be a badass car to have, but from what I've come to understand, they tend to break down/be more unreliable then DSMs.

There are 2 badass red MR2s here in Johnson County. Both are pushing around 24+ psi and 500+ hp.

 

[Digitronical]

Well the GSX certainly has some time to make up stock to stock, since the GSX runs 15.1 from the factory and his car runs 13.3 b4 dropping a dime into it on a track that is 8ft short of a quartermile.

100% Stock Mk2 MR2 Gen 2 (~200HP) vs Gen 3 (~245HP) - Video

If the AWD is really what make sthe GSX the better car, then should I also be looking into the Celica Alltrac w/gen3 3sgte, since those also come with all those great features, an A2W IC, very rare and toyota build quality.

 

[kwheeler]

I've raced against and driven that generation Turbo MR2 on Auto-X courses.
They can be a real handful if you haven't got experience driving them. The boost comes on and will break the tires loose causing you to spin. They also have a very pronounced throttle lift oversteer behavior which means you better be braking in a straight line. If you enter a corner on the gas and lift or try to trail brake it'll swap ends on you before you know what happened. This is the same characteristic Porsche 911 based cars have. It's because of the rearward weight bias.
Other than these characteristics they can be very fast and have the Toyota reliability.
As for 340whp spending only $1500.00 buying parts for a Toyota, I call BS on that.
As stated before, Toyota parts are expensive but can make huge HP.

kwheeler

 

[DGajre777]

Gsx.

 

[ryanx99GS]

Get a GSX. I was looking at your profile, don't go to adrenaline. My friends and I take our cars to Hi-Tuned Performance in Arnold. He specializes in DSM's. Thats basically all he works on + some SRT-4's and Conquests. My friend has a 450whp GST that rips. Built by HTP. Just a heads up.

 

[asexton6969]

I have modded a few mr2's. In my opinion, I'd rather work on my GST or my fiancee's GSX anyday. Swapping turbos on the mr2's was just a gigantic pain in the ass in my opinion. I like how they look, etc, but DSM's are the car for me.

 

[SOADweskey]

I've raced against and driven that generation Turbo MR2 on Auto-X courses.
They can be a real handful if you haven't got experience driving them. The boost comes on and will break the tires loose causing you to spin. They also have a very pronounced throttle lift oversteer behavior which means you better be braking in a straight line. If you enter a corner on the gas and lift or try to trail brake it'll swap ends on you before you know what happened. This is the same characteristic Porsche 911 based cars have. It's because of the rearward weight bias.
Other than these characteristics they can be very fast and have the Toyota reliability.
As for 340whp spending only $1500.00 buying parts for a Toyota, I call BS on that.
As stated before, Toyota parts are expensive but can make huge HP.

kwheeler

+1 to the handling. My friend I do track days with has an MR2 and he spins that thing all the time. Granted that is just one guy and he might just be a bad driver. The GSX is far more forgiving to a driver that isn't 100% precise.

And I don't know if you have another car for a daily driver but the lack of storage space in the MR2 makes it a fun toy but a miserable daily driver as soon as you need to bring anything with you.

 

[Digitronical]

Not enuff storage space? With a trunk, and a front trunk there is a lot of storage space for a 2seater, and is only a foot shorter than the eclipse. If I need to haul anything that wont fit in an MR2, it probably wont fit in a GSX and I need a truck anyways. Im trying to find a allaround track car for the cheapest buck.

Snap Oversteer is only a problem for novice Drivers to MR2's, 93-95 had revised suspensions to fight snapoversteer.

Can someone link me to the skidpad and stock braking results of a GSX, god I hope its not anything over 120ft. I want to shove these numbers into my brothers face and tell him that the stock gsx can outbrake and outhandle a MR2 without spending a dime.

 

[SOADweskey]

I carry two complete BMX bicycles in my GSX all the time without taking any parts off of the bikes. I get to the skatepark and me and my friend pull both of the bikes out of the back and go ride. I could never do that in my other friends MR2. I also can fit 4 wheels with race tires in my car as well as my tools, jack, ez-up, and cooler. Also no such luck for track days in the MR2, support vehicle required.

 

[Digitronical]

I carry two complete BMX bicycles in my GSX all the time without taking any parts off of the bikes. I get to the skatepark and me and my friend pull both of the bikes out of the back and go ride. I could never do that in my other friends MR2. I also can fit 4 wheels with race tires in my car as well as my tools, jack, ez-up, and cooler. Also no such luck for track days in the MR2, support vehicle required.

I noticed you ran a 13.2 . were you able to do this with 10 dollars or less in mods because my brother spent 8 dollars at lowes on a DIY boost controller and ran a 13.2 with no mods other then the 8 bucks he spent on the boost controller. I'm afraid with a stock t25 and 450cc injectors, that i couldn't possibly come close to his 13.2 for 8 dollars in mods to his duece with out having to purchase a new larger turbo and some sort of fuel system, and the basic bolts on (MBC/DP/Exhaust/intercooler.intake filter)

 

[SOADweskey]

I found these stats for a 97 GSX posted on Tampa Racing. I have no idea how accurate they are but they aren't all that impressive.
Eclipse GSX ('97):
-------------------------------
Price: $--,--- (does anyone remember?)
Miles Per Gallon: 23/31 mpg
Curb Weight: 3681 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/AWD
Transmission: 5-Speed Manual
Type: Turbocharged Inline-4
Displacement: 1997 cc
Horsepower: 210 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 214 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm
Redline: 7000 rpm
0-60 mph: 6.5 sec
0-100 mph: 17.0 sec
Quarter Mile: 15.1 sec @ 93 mph
Skidpad: .84g
Top Speed: 130 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 131 ft
Slalom Speed: 63.1 mph


As for my car running in the low 13's for $8 not a chance. And not talking shit but I would love to see your brothers car come out here to Ca and do the same on 91 octane in 102 deg. heat. Considering that the same day I ran that 13.2 I watched 2 EVO MRs lay down blistering mid 15 passes and a STI managed to get an all impressive 14.8. Drag racing in the California desert isn't all it is cracked up to be. My mods are in my profile, I have a B16G, DSMlink, 720 injectors, FMIC and misc. other things.

If you can truly duplicate what your brother has done then get the MR2. I think both cars are cool. My GSX is also my daily driver and my love of BMX that causes me to have a bike with me all the time pretty much makes my decision for me.

 

[srtkiller]

I work for Toyota in the parts department and talk with mr2 owners all day. They are great little cars but I can really vouch for the price of the parts if anything were to break. Just like any other car in stock form they are very reliable but once you start putting any real horsepower through them they start to break. Take this into consideration to do your timing belt job the right way with the recomended parts your looking at $454.86 and that is if your lucky enough to be employed or know someone employed by Toyota. Don't get me wrong they are badass cars but they can be very expensive to fix and you most parts have to be ordered through Toyota if you want good quality OEM parts.

Just my opinion

 

[FatalDreams]

It sounds like you made up your mind about the mr2. If you are looking for a cheap performing car, the gsx OR the mr2 will be good. you have to understand that in this forum most guys will say "GSX". I say go with what fits you and your personality, not what other people want or think you sould get. I'm a fan of mr2's they handle very well IF you know how to drive MR.

+1 MR2

+1 1/2 GSX

 

[JOEY A]

Ricer Talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Digitronical]

yea my t25 gst has always been quick enough for my liking but i hate the traction loss. I feel like either car will be a major improvement over my current set up. I would just like to dip into the 12's on a bad launch so i don't have to risk hurting anything.

 

[JOEY A]

MR2s are not cheap to mod, yes they are realiable but there parts cost a bit more and its harder to work on

Im talking about real turbo setups, not some junk hybred crap they like to do with the stock turbo and put down weak numbers

My freinds had these cars, a motor swap out is hard and your have to drop the subframe wich isnt fun they have problems with snap over steer


And when you make power at the drag strip, bring a couple axels with you because they snap like tooth pikes

They are very good cars, but your making them out to be the end all car or somthing

There really isnt anything special to them and if you want to talk numbers, there are more 1000whp 4G63s in the world than the alum toy motor..

So in a nut shell this is ricer talk

And a stock MR2 does not out brake or out do a f40, I dont know were the #### you got those numbers from

Also they are very expensive cars for what they are, all of them ive scene are for 10K plus with alot of miles, no thank you

 

[JOEY A]

yea my t25 gst has always been quick enough for my liking but i hate the traction loss. I feel like either car will be a major improvement over my current set up. I would just like to dip into the 12's on a bad launch so i don't have to risk hurting anything.

You have a nice cruiser, seems like you have no mods really just some basic stuff by the way you talk...


Driving a T25 to me is so slow, I laugh ...Not to be a dick but its the truth its a turtle

A 14B is a upgrade for it

 

[90laserRSfwd]

To tell you the truth you should get the alltrac. The transmissions are a lot better, I'd hate to be the one to tell you this but this website is kind of biased towards DSM's I think.... maybe I'm just not thinking straight on that one though? I wish I could find a nice alltrac celica. I'd buy that thing in a heartbeat!!

 

[94_eclipse]

Here is a tip, drive a MR-2, and then drive a GSX... See which one you like better. And honestly, the MR-2's are death traps if you ever get into an accedent. Its not all about the numbers of the stoping distance or the quarter mile times and all that crap. Its about what is overall better. My opinion is the GSX is overall better, the main reason is the AWD. You can get a hole shot out on anyone that has a 2 wheel drive in any weather condition. Also with the AWD its safer on poor road conditions. Thats just my 2 cents.

 

[JOEY A]

Asa budget minded tuner, what car do you think I shud get since I want to tie or beat my brothers MR2 while spending as little as possible. Can I put down 340whp w/ a gsx AND run an 11.9? He did it all for $1500 and I wud like to do the same.


Uh buying a used car in general, you better have money to fix things if they break period so keep your pants on befor you get the mod bug

 

[JOEY A]

To tell you the truth you should get the alltrac. The transmissions are a lot better, I'd hate to be the one to tell you this but this website is kind of biased towards DSM's I think.... maybe I'm just not thinking straight on that one though? I wish I could find a nice alltrac celica. I'd buy that thing in a heartbeat!!

You go over to the alltrac forum, and talk to them about it


And they will tell you DSMs are very hard to hang with since we have a much bigger US based market of parts, and more things are set in stone for the avg joe


Yes they are a better car, but they are also much more expensive, harder to find and alot alot harder to setup


Go out to a parking lot my area were there are 100plus cars, and almost all the DSMs are low 12s or faster